Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by PaulS on Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:12 am

This is actually not (crossing myself) a Westone but a Washburn 6 string (crossing myself again) (a Raven, actually, circa 1980) but I imagine Westones must have the same set up sometimes.

Ok, so the action is really high and the neck has a definite bow in it. I looked online, watched a tutorial video and thought to myself 'Even a complete dunce like me I can do that' and, as it is theoretically a quicker job than tracing the electrical fault in my Thunder 1A bass I thought I'd have a bash this afternoon. So got the truss rod cover off and, of course, it is not straight forward at all. It isn't a hex head but a nut and washer. And nothing in my tool box is slim enough to reach down the space available to the sides to get a decent grip on it.

Do I need a special tool for this - looks like something called a Truss Rod Spanner? And would anyone happen to know which specific size?

PaulS
Senior Member

Number of posts : 198
Location : North Thames Delta
Registration date : 2010-02-18

http://www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by corsair on Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:28 am

probably... although a long drive socket would probably do the trick. Don't know what the size is but the trick with TR adjustment is a little at a time; ¼ of a turn at a time and then the guitar settle is what I've always done...

_________________
FWIW, an after market esoteric nut is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and a great way to convert your money into someone else’s.

corsair
Administrator

Number of posts : 5248
Age : 57
Location : Hervey Bay, Australia.
Registration date : 2008-04-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by umpdv5000 on Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:26 pm

Yes, a long socket is what I use on those, although it does usually have to be a thin 1/4" drive type to fit properly. These are not so common and you do have to find a place that sells them (motoring shops or tool shops). Another alternative is a long box key, which is much the same as a long socket but are usually obtainable from motor bike shops.

As for truss rod adjustment, I am somewhat less cautious than John, as I do this regularly. The thing to remember is that your strings are pulling the neck forward and as you tighten the truss rod, it will start to pull the neck backwards. When tightening the nut, you are putting a lot of stress on the threads due to the forward tension and I absolutely recommend that you sit down, place the guitar upright on the floor, with body of the guitar held between your feet and put a knee at the back of the body. Hold the top of the neck with one hand and pull backwards firmly and hold this position when tightening the truss rod nut. This takes the forward tension off the neck and allows the truss rod to be adjusted without stress on the threads. There are different ways to test for correct adjustment, but the most reliable way is to tighten the truss rod until the strings just touch the frets around the middle of the fretboard. If you were to pluck the stings at this point they should stop themselves on the frets. Then gradually slacken the truss rod until the strings lift off the frets. Test by playing a string on the 1st 2nd & 3rd frets and if there is fret buzz, slacken the truss rod a touch more. Repeat the test and slacken accordingly until the fret buzz just disappears. You will will now have the optimum truss rod adjustment for your guitar. You may find that the strings still don't lie properly and that you are getting fret buzz in other places of the guitar, such as from the 12th fret upwards. The answer is to raise your bridge saddles until the frets from the 12th fret upwards are playing as they should. I might point out that your string saddles may also be too high to start with and the correct way to adjust them is to lower them down until the guitar starts to choke when played from the 12th fret upwards. Then raise each saddle until the strings play properly from the 12th fret upwards. This should really be the first thing that you do before any truss rod adjustment as this is a critical starting point. Only when this is done properly will your truss rod adjustment give perfect results. I may also add that if you have the odd fret buzz around the neck, it will be because your fretwork is not good and needs levelling, which is a job for a good luthier. If this is the case I am always available to those who live close enough to call on me in St Helens, Merseyside, England (you guys are a bit fanned out, but that was my chance for a plug, do forgive me).

Martin.

umpdv5000
Senior Member

Number of posts : 230
Age : 61
Location : St Helens, Merseyside, England.
Registration date : 2010-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by PaulS on Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Thank you for such detailed and informative replies. I cannot possibly go wrong now.....

I was looking briefly on eBay - would something like this be appropriate, do you suppose? My problem is that I don't know exactly what size I'll need, so a little set such as this would most likely have the right size somewhere.

box spanner set

PaulS
Senior Member

Number of posts : 198
Location : North Thames Delta
Registration date : 2010-02-18

http://www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by Barry on Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:48 pm

PaulS wrote:...a little set such as this would most likely have the right size somewhere...
Yes I would think so Paul. Martin's given you some good advice...the only thing that I'd add is to first of all loosen the nut (counter clockwise) before you proceed with your adjustments. This ensures that you're not already at the limit of the thread. The last thing you want to do is to try and tighten it if it's already at maximum adjustment. That would shear off the nut and likely ruin yer day! Probably nut a bad idea to remove it entirely, clean the threads, and lightly lubricate them with a dab of petroleum jelly.

_________________
"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown


GUITARS : http://legend.barryeames.com/guitars.html
MUSIC/PIX/VIDEOS: http://getback.barryeames.com (including Spectrum ST)

Barry
Hero, Legend, and all round good guy

Number of posts : 6124
Age : 71
Location : Port Weller, St. Catharines, Canada
Registration date : 2009-05-01

http://www.barryeames.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by umpdv5000 on Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:07 pm

Forgive my contradiction Barry, but I would not advise removal of the nut as this can lead to relocation problems at times. I have never found a truss rod nut to be at the end of its thread for tightening, as this would mean that the rod was the wrong size in the first place and if that's the case, then your f***ed anyway.

umpdv5000
Senior Member

Number of posts : 230
Age : 61
Location : St Helens, Merseyside, England.
Registration date : 2010-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by Barry on Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:02 pm

umpdv5000 wrote:Forgive my contradiction Barry, but I would not advise removal of the nut as this can lead to relocation problems at times. I have never found a truss rod nut to be at the end of its thread for tightening...
Maybe so, but given the age of these guitars a little lube wouldn't hurt. And I don't think relocation is an issue since you're adjusting the thing in the first place, not putting it back where it was, which presumably was incorrect or you wouldn't be adjusting it. Suspect

_________________
"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown


GUITARS : http://legend.barryeames.com/guitars.html
MUSIC/PIX/VIDEOS: http://getback.barryeames.com (including Spectrum ST)

Barry
Hero, Legend, and all round good guy

Number of posts : 6124
Age : 71
Location : Port Weller, St. Catharines, Canada
Registration date : 2009-05-01

http://www.barryeames.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by umpdv5000 on Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:06 pm

I was really saying this as Paul is obviously not used to doing this sort of thing and if he should cross thread the nut when trying to locate it into position down a hole, then he would certainly have wished he hadn't taken it off in the first place, unless it was absolutely necessary, which is unlikely. Better safe than sorry if you understand my point.

umpdv5000
Senior Member

Number of posts : 230
Age : 61
Location : St Helens, Merseyside, England.
Registration date : 2010-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by bowenjaybee on Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:18 pm

Martin and Barry you should both be ashamed of yourselves encouraging amateurs to play about with their rods!!

bowenjaybee
Senior Member

Number of posts : 560
Age : 44
Location : Bradford, West Yorkshire . UK
Registration date : 2010-02-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by Barry on Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:30 pm

But a boy's grip should exceed his nut or what's a rod for?

I paraphrase...sort of.

_________________
"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown


GUITARS : http://legend.barryeames.com/guitars.html
MUSIC/PIX/VIDEOS: http://getback.barryeames.com (including Spectrum ST)

Barry
Hero, Legend, and all round good guy

Number of posts : 6124
Age : 71
Location : Port Weller, St. Catharines, Canada
Registration date : 2009-05-01

http://www.barryeames.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by PaulS on Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:45 am

Keeping it as simple as possible is best as far as I am concerned - I am ok with some tasks yet certain things seem totally beyond my capabilities. For example, I almost totally rewired my last house (before the rules changed, that is) and installed new central heating. Yet changing a spark plug (on my old MkIV Cortina) ended up with me limping along to a garage on 3 cylinders, having cross threaded one of them. And as for changing the thermostat... 2 day job in the end

Anyway - I appreciate the advice and tips. Having never fiddled with my rod before I am a little nervous...

PaulS
Senior Member

Number of posts : 198
Location : North Thames Delta
Registration date : 2010-02-18

http://www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by corsair on Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:59 am

Nothing anyone has said in here is wrong or misguided; but do it as I do and go quietly and all will be fine!! Martin does this stuff for a living and is well conversant with the pressures etc. involved and his advice is golden, but Barry perhaps has a point with the lubrication, and although the amount of truss rods I've personally had to adjust over 30 years you could count on the fingers of 2 hands and TR nut movement was never a problem! It is not a major issue and you are obviously skilled enough to have a go, so rip into it, Paul...

As for the cross threaded Cortina, well, it couldn't happen to a nicer vehicle!!

_________________
FWIW, an after market esoteric nut is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and a great way to convert your money into someone else’s.

corsair
Administrator

Number of posts : 5248
Age : 57
Location : Hervey Bay, Australia.
Registration date : 2008-04-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by PaulS on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:04 am

A little feedback. Bought the box spanner set, the 8mm one fitted a treat. Slackened off the srtings, gingerly made a 1/8th turn to see if it was stiff - whether I'd need to pull on the neck or whatever - but the nut moved freely. Did it again - about 3 x 1/8 turns and it is sorted - just a quick fine tune (as it were) with the saddle height needed. Easy peasy - thanks chaps. I might even do it to all my guitars as and when they need it, now I have overcome the initial hurdle of actually doing it.

PaulS
Senior Member

Number of posts : 198
Location : North Thames Delta
Registration date : 2010-02-18

http://www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by corsair on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:44 am

Beauty, mate!! See, it wasn't that hard after all, eh!! And to the guys in here, well done team; we've created another monster!!

_________________
FWIW, an after market esoteric nut is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and a great way to convert your money into someone else’s.

corsair
Administrator

Number of posts : 5248
Age : 57
Location : Hervey Bay, Australia.
Registration date : 2008-04-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by umpdv5000 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:31 am

PaulS wrote:A little feedback. Bought the box spanner set, the 8mm one fitted a treat. Slackened off the srtings, gingerly made a 1/8th turn to see if it was stiff - whether I'd need to pull on the neck or whatever - but the nut moved freely. Did it again - about 3 x 1/8 turns and it is sorted - just a quick fine tune (as it were) with the saddle height needed. Easy peasy - thanks chaps. I might even do it to all my guitars as and when they need it, now I have overcome the initial hurdle of actually doing it.

Hi Paul,

I don't wish to sound demeaning but I suspect that your truss rod adjustment may only be partially sorted. Firstly, you should not slacken your strings to adjust your truss rod. Whilst stating this, I don't mean that you can't slacken your stings before you adjust the truss rod (as this will make turning it easy), but by doing this, you have to retune to test if the adjustment is correct and if not, you will have to re-adjust. The act of pulling the neck back against the tension of the strings while tightening the truss rod has the same effect as slackening your strings. The problem is knowing when it is properly adjusted and when its not. The standard test for truss rod adjustment is as follows... Fret the 3rd string at the 1st fret with a finger from your left hand and hold it down. Then place the thumb of your right hand on the 3rd string on the pickup side of the highest fret so that you now have the 3rd string trapped between the 1st fret and the last fret. Whilst holding the position of both hands, stretch out the first finger of your right hand as far as you can towards the 12th fret and press the string on and off toward the fretboard. There should be a gap no more than 1mm at this central point. If there is no gap and the string is touching the frets, then the truss rod is too tight, if there is a larger gap than 1mm then the truss rod is too slack, but the best advice is to start with the truss rod a little too tight and slacken a little at a time until the first to the third frets play without buzzing. I would strongly advise you to re-read the posting I wrote further back in this column and go through the motions starting with the saddle adjustments.

Martin.

umpdv5000
Senior Member

Number of posts : 230
Age : 61
Location : St Helens, Merseyside, England.
Registration date : 2010-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by PaulS on Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:40 am

Partially sorted will do for the moment - I will have a proper look another time. It is certainly a huge improvement - makes me wonder what it would be like with a more thorough tweek.

Here is the beast, BTW, and what a beauty:

https://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/14/89/34/32/raven114.jpg
https://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/14/89/34/32/raven211.jpg

PaulS
Senior Member

Number of posts : 198
Location : North Thames Delta
Registration date : 2010-02-18

http://www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by Barry on Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:58 am

There ya go! Excellent!
Beautiful guitar.

_________________
"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown


GUITARS : http://legend.barryeames.com/guitars.html
MUSIC/PIX/VIDEOS: http://getback.barryeames.com (including Spectrum ST)

Barry
Hero, Legend, and all round good guy

Number of posts : 6124
Age : 71
Location : Port Weller, St. Catharines, Canada
Registration date : 2009-05-01

http://www.barryeames.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by umpdv5000 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:37 pm

Oh my word, that is a cutie.

umpdv5000
Senior Member

Number of posts : 230
Age : 61
Location : St Helens, Merseyside, England.
Registration date : 2010-02-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Next silly question - truss rod adjustment - but not straight forward.

Post by Sponsored content Today at 3:11 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum