Effects advice please

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Effects advice please

Post by Steve777 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:28 am

Having never really been an effects player (usually guitar in to valve amp but now solid state- Carlsbro 100watt), I now find myself the owner of a range of Boss clones, good quality metal cases and great surface mounted electronics, but with no idea on the optimum order ( chain ) I should have them in. So, turning to the forum for advice, what goes where in what order. I have :
1. GLX Delay (Like a DD6)
2. GLX Overdrive
3. GLX Soft Distortion
4. GLX Chorus Ensemble
5. GLX Compression/Sustainer
6. Morley Bad Horsie switchless wah

Secondly, what distinguishes a a Chorus Ensemble from a Chorus or Super Chorus or is this the kings new clothes? With regard to the Compression Sustainer, whilst I can hear a little benefit with single coils (attack), humbuckers sound muddy to my ears. Comments ? Any mods ? Any improvements?

I intend to replace the stock Opamp in the OD with a JRC 4558 as fitted to TS9 tubescreamer and bridge a pair of diodes to increase the range of the gain. Anybody had any experience of this?

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by north-west-one on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:54 am

Over the last 18 months or so I have been putting a Boss pedal board together and after much Googling and trial and error have settled for the following:
Compressor.....Wah......Overdrive/distortion......Chorus........Delay........amp. Some advise the Wah last in the chain but I think it will come down to personal choice.
I have a couple of GLX pedals that I use for Bass. One is a limiter and the other a Bass equalizer. They are of sturdy construction but I have found that one emits a high pitch tone when activated. Not much of a problem when playing but noticeable when stopped.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Steve777 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:20 pm

Cheers for that. My amp has an effects loop and after googling around this subject, some say that the modulated effects ... Chorus, Flanger, Phaser etc should go through this whilst the Distortion, OD and Wah go direct.

I'll try your set up later and see how it goes.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by DuoFuzz on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:47 pm

Hi Steve,

I found this link you might find useful.

What order should effects pedals go in?

There is a bit of reading but lots of good info.

DAN.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Steve777 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:59 pm

Interesting and thanks ... more to ponder and more experimentation but the logic of the article cannot be denied !

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with the CS. Frankly I expected to wail away a la Isley Bros, but it seems far more subtle than I imagined.

Actually the mod for the GLX OD came from a post on Harmony Central. The poster described how he piggy backed two JRC4458 opamps to get the desired tone but in the process draws more current. Need to think this one through.

Any thoughts on Chorus differences?

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by DuoFuzz on Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:22 pm

I've never got my head around the compressor/sustainer pedals, I have three of the things (including one I built myself!) and I still don't 'get' it. Apparently they keep the volume level constant as well as sustaining the notes, but my ears refuse to hear it! Maybe they work in a loud live gig or for studio work better than they do for home use?

From the chorus pedals I've got, I believe they all do basically the same thing to be honest, a lot of it comes down to how much control you have over the signal. It's worth testing a few out if your in the market for another one, they can sound very different. Some sound warmer or thicker and others can sound cold or sterile, just a personal thing I guess. My favourite is either my old Boss CE-2 or the Electro-Harmonix Small Clone.

As for modding pedals there is so much hearsay out there on the subject it's hard to know what's right and wrong. I'm guessing you already have some info on the opamp mod you mentioned, all I would say is use IC sockets when you put in the new chips if it's possible. A soldering iron could easily toast an IC chip by the time you've worked your way round all eight legs, especially on the old chip you remove.

DAN.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by north-west-one on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:18 pm

I thought the same of my Boss compressor when I first used it but with a bit of tweaking it improves my sound no end and I would not play without it. Much under rated piece of kit.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by corsair on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:19 pm

All of my stompers are Boss ones, and I, too, favour my CE2 for chorus effect; you can get a Police sound quite easily with chorus + delay + reverb which is quite cool. I've tried all sorts of other FX and come back to the Boss stompers every time - I'd love an SG1, but they're way too pricey now; I should've bought one in 1987 when I was offered it for next to nothing!!

There is an optimum signal chain - according to the experts - , but I reckon you make your decision with your ears, man - play about with them a bit and see what sounds good to you!! See, I have my wah and volume pedals before the compressor....

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Barry on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:05 am

Geez, I feel so inadequate...
In all my years on stage, my "effects chain" consisted of a Boss Chorus CE3 and the Roland amp's Reverb! Oh, and the occasional Overdrive. tongue

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Racing on Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:47 pm

Barry.
Don´t.
U and me are on the same page.
I simply don´t use effects. cheers

Well...if there´s an onboard USABLE reverb i do on occasion.
That apart...fugedaboutit.. affraid

Said it before,say it again....a good tube amp and a cab of choice.
Rest is up to the guitar and my own fingers. What a Face

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by hoax on Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:52 pm

I'm with Baz and the Racing person.

Use your axe, amp and fingers in whatever order you choose.

Graham

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by corsair on Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:10 am

Luddites!! How do you cover the Police, or SRV, or Pink Floyd, or late era Beatles, or Jimi Hendrix, or Yes, or Focus et al et al et al without FX??? You cannot get said sounds without sculpting your sound. End of story. If you're playing originals, then they must sound a little samey with no reverb, delay or chorus at the very least... there's only so many sounds a guitar can make in a live situation!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by colt933 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:13 am

I would definitely put the delay in the effects loop.

Also, if your amp does not have a 'boost' for leads, I suggest something like an MXR micro amp or a SD clean boost - also in the effects loop. It will make your solos pop without saturating the input preamp tubes (which are probably already saturated).

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Frenchy on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:19 am

Luddites!! How do you cover the Police, or SRV, or Pink Floyd, or late era Beatles, or Jimi Hendrix, or Yes, or Focus et al et al et al without FX???

I agree! effects are used by artist and bands to get that special sound. One needs these effects to reproduce the songs.

all I would say is use IC sockets when you put in the new chips if it's possible. A soldering iron could easily toast an IC chip by the time you've worked your way round all eight legs, especially on the old chip you remove.

I used an IC socket and modded a TS5 with a JRC 4558 to make a TS9, sounds amazing now. cheers

I have been moving pedals around my board for years, a never ending quest for the perfect set up..... geek

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by bowenjaybee on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:24 am

hoax wrote:I'm with Baz and the Racing person.

Use your axe, amp and fingers in whatever order you choose.

It does work with some gutarists, Angus Young maybe but I'd like to see The Edge try that, now that would be a laugh.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:22 pm

just remember modulators before wah's and volume pedals, make the volume pedal last. if you feel your losing tone due to many pedals, sell em and get the best, Robin Trower won't touch anything unless it's Fulltone, same with many top rated bands even Kieth Richards uses Fulltone, go to their website and see the very huge list of musicians using and still using Fulltone...I own a few and they rule. I prefer rack mounts as opposed to pedals as they can give off bad noises from all the wall wart transformers make sure the pedals you use have tru-bypass unless you like the sound you created sucked out when not using them. i like to layer my effects, using 2 chorus and a slight delay you can't even notice till I turn them off, but that's just me as I like a guitar sound that's not all muddied up by effects so any that i use are mostly dry instead of wet.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Steve777 on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:31 pm

Cheers for that Nasticanasta. Sound advice. The effects chain is a bit of minefield to the uninitiated like me.

I guess the celebs have their preferences (and an unlimited purse to boot) to choose what they consider is the best for them. Actually, I 'd rather develop my own "sound", and if that means piddling about with a soldering iron, some Opamps and diodes, well..... it sure puts a smile on my face. As Hannibal from the A team used to say, "I love it when a plan comes together". Hence making my own brass sustain blocks. I believe Jesper mods his own amps. Come to think of it, I have some nice chunks of 50 year elm somewhere that I intended to shape into a guitar. Might revisit that idea! Mental note made.

Unfortunately, now, I'm just a humble hobby guitarist trying to keep his head above water during a dire recession. Saying that, I'm being urged to play live again by well meaning friends but you know, I simply cant be arsed hauling equipment around anymore. Pathetic I know.

So until I can see a viable economic recovery here in Blighty, GLX pedals and a Morley Bad Horsie will have to do for me.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Westbone on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:09 pm

Yep, Just playing away at home, Likewise, have a few jams, no big deal.
Sounds ok to us on a Friday night. Fender 1000 roc-pro, (loads of crunch) Peavey transtube(usa) and cranked up a good bit. In fact turn it right up, use the guitar volume. On a good old Selmer Truvoice 50 croc head and a Hi watt 4x12(big sounding cab) Marshall eat your gain out. These amps are 'king killer.
Give me a Croc head. Twisted Evil

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:28 pm

Steve777 wrote:Cheers for that Nasticanasta. Sound advice. The effects chain is a bit of minefield to the uninitiated like me.

I guess the celebs have their preferences (and an unlimited purse to boot) to choose what they consider is the best for them. Actually, I 'd rather develop my own "sound", and if that means piddling about with a soldering iron, some Opamps and diodes, well..... it sure puts a smile on my face. As Hannibal from the A team used to say, "I love it when a plan comes together". Hence making my own brass sustain blocks. I believe Jesper mods his own amps. Come to think of it, I have some nice chunks of 50 year elm somewhere that I intended to shape into a guitar. Might revisit that idea! Mental note made.

Unfortunately, now, I'm just a humble hobby guitarist trying to keep his head above water during a dire recession. Saying that, I'm being urged to play live again by well meaning friends but you know, I simply cant be arsed hauling equipment around anymore. Pathetic I know.

So until I can see a viable economic recovery here in Blighty, GLX pedals and a Morley Bad Horsie will have to do for me.
Ahhh yes indeed I too mod my pedals...swapping out caps, replacing resistors with pots to modify "on the fly" Laughing I made a bass guitar from scratch in High School..1978!! I still have it though my brother took off the fretless neck I had made and replaced it with a '61 Kalamazoo , then he got a Rickenbacher 4001 and never touched the bass again...he gave it back to me some years back and it sat in a corner till I recently bought a full scale Series 10 bass neck for it ... replaced the ancient PU and put in a Bartolli, new bridge and pick guard and it's still pumpin! As for luggin around effects...that's why all I use is rack mounted stuff and the only pedals I use are Fulltone Deja Vibe 2, Fulltone Clyde Deluxe wah, an old Morley Tel-Ray Pro-Flanger, and an Ernie Ball Volume pedal...which all fit in a neat pedal-board case....so that's just one case for pedals slightly longer than a suitcase, and my rack case with my amp and processors just 6 spaces, and a 4x12 cab.....that's it! I too don't wanna tote around lots of stuff, hehe when I first started gettin real serious about my effects I saw Robin Trowers setup and it's so simple....just 4 pedals straight into a Marshall, then I see Frank Marino (Mahogany Rush) and this guy loves to mod and hot rod his amp and pedals..and he has like 50 pedals on a massive board with 3 tiers..lol I'm like...wtf do I do? Fortunately I went with simpicity

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:51 pm

Steve777 wrote:Cheers for that. My amp has an effects loop and after googling around this subject, some say that the modulated effects ... Chorus, Flanger, Phaser etc should go through this whilst the Distortion, OD and Wah go direct.

I'll try your set up later and see how it goes.
I wholeheartedly agree with this

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by caucajun on Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:31 pm

play your Guitar through your Amp, assess what's missing, put that in between G & A..........."lather, rinse, repeat." Razz Twisted Evil Laughing Cool

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by north-west-one on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:39 pm

Thought you would like a look at my pedal board. From the top right CS3 Compressor......AC3 Acoustic Sim.......DN2 Dyna Drive......LS2 Line Selector.........PS5 Super Shifter........HF2 High Band Flanger.......CE5 Chorus Ensemble...........DD3 Digital Delay............RC2 Loop Station.
Guitar signal goes through a FV50 Volume pedal before entering the compressor. The Line selector sends the signal to the V Wah or to my Zoom 505 which I manly use as a tuner. The super shifter is connected to an expression pedal and also carries the stereo signal into another amp stack.
The FS-5U pedals act as a channel changer and tempo setter for the Looper pedal. The AB2 is for switching from clean to driven amp settings. I can't remember what the FS-5L is meant to do but its basically an on off switch. (Redundant at the moment!!!) The utra gain pedal is used for boosting either my electro acoustic Ibanez or boosting my Bass guitar. Works well.

url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=21&u=13914294][/url]

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:53 pm

I like to keep my pedal setup simple no agnonizing hooking it up or breaking it down. No offense but to me the above picture looks like a nightmare tongue but I'm sure it works for him.
L-R; Ernie Ball JR volume, Fulltone Clyde Deluxe wah, mid 70's Morley Tel-Ray Pro-Flanger, Fulltone Deja Vibe 2, all velcro'd down. My guitar goes into the Deja then the Morley then wah and volume into my rack system, striaght into the ART DST-Eighty/Eighty, then I looped the Lexicon Alex and the Hush Super C...that's all she wrote....silent but deadly.


Last edited by nasticanasta on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:55 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by bowenjaybee on Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:10 pm

I always use Robert Smith from the Cure FX setup as a guide, this was his setup in the mid 90's... wah first, distortion/Overdrive, Modulators next and delay last.. simple.

it was good enough for his sound...


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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:46 pm

Modulators before wahs!!!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Barry on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:15 pm

north-west-one wrote:Thought you would like a look at my pedal board....
Arrrgggghhh!! Can't deal wif it!
Make the bad pedal man go away. lol!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm

you all should try that Boss brand of pedals... lol! :joker:

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Steve777 on Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:30 pm

North-West one, thats hell of rig ! How do you stop tripping up when you're dancing the light fantastic across those stomp boxes. The Health and Safety Nazis wont like you !!

Seriously though, theres some fantastic kit there although, from what I read, the CS3 can be/ should be modified. Maybe yours works properly. I'm trying to get my head around Compressor / Sustainers.

I see you have a Boss V wah. I had one up to a year ago, but the main board died and Boss wanted almost as much as a new pedal for a new board. Because it was all surface mounted components, it was written off. Got a morley now which I like. Optical, switchless and can be tweaked inexpensively. I was looking for George Dennis but the one tried was remarkable on clean, absolutely the dogs sphericals, but with O/d or distortion seem to loose something.

Thanks everyone for their advice. I'm still tinkering, trying different pedals in different parts of the chain.

Got some JRC4558D Opamp chips and sockets arriving soon so it'll be out with the soldering iron. I'm looking for a Daphon OD20 pedal. The're relatively cheap secondhand and made of metal. Although made in the ROC, its actually quite good and easily modded. From what I understand, its got part of a Boss DS1 circuit and part of Tube screamer. A simple two way switch can fitted to click between the two. I'm still reading up on this.

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by caucajun on Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:18 pm

soo.......robert smith the cure's pedals wire left to right, eh???????...............i always knew there was something aboot that guy........... Suspect

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by nasticanasta on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:06 pm

Razz lol!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by caucajun on Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:32 am

oooooh!!!!!!! Shocked

i just returned from shreveport where i knabbed/rescued a monte allums od-308 from a pawnshop.

it looks pretty decent, i did a quick repair on a shorted battery lead, and now the battery don't burn up.... Twisted Evil .....LED lights.......and from what i read about it on the website......it oughta be the best RAT pedal EVER! bounce

stand by, will update soon! NITE ALL!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by corsair on Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:27 am

Not quite as flash as caucajuns's find, but I've got a Boss ME30 of the evilbay for pratting about with - my rig is of course, 12000 miles away - and it's OK. Not brilliant, but sufficient for my porpoises in that it has a lovely reverb and a nice delay. It has distortions and overdrives out the yin-yang, and I'll have to play around with settings to get one I like as they all seem a bit OTT, to me anyway.

It also has the dinkiest expression/volume/wah pedal I've ever used; it has all of about 2 inches of pedal arc - not even roughly enough for a decent wah!! Laughing

Bear in mind, too, that the only amp I have is an old 15w Gear4music POS, so my opinions are coloured by that nasty - but loud! - crouching heap!! Laughing


Last edited by corsair on Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by corsair on Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:41 pm

OK... enough's' enough! I'll delete everything that's not to do with Steve's original post!

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Re: Effects advice please

Post by Barry on Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:59 pm

cheers

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