Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

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Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:53 am

Hello all!

Good surprise, I have just received this baby, which the seller (very cool guy btw) remembered was a westone:







Some anonymous and very knowledgeable Westone expert pm-ed me suggesting it might very well be some Korean spectrum. I'll go with that one for the time being.

As you may know, I'm not very good at fiddling around with guitars, having only focalised on the playing itself - big mistake - and I would be most grateful if someone could answer a few questions :heart: .

Here goes:

Knowing that the studs center to center spacing for the floating trem is 7.4cm, does anyone know which trem used to be in the guitar? Also in this respect, how will I know if I have to move the neck back and reroute the neck pocket, since I have read that this has to be done when replacing a Bendmaster delux with a FR (Btw, there is so little space between the neck pocket and the neck pickup cavity, I don't know if any routing can be done)?

Does it matter if the guitar used to have, say a 24 fret neck and I decide to put in a 21? In other words, and this is a very silly question and I can guess the answer, is a 24 fret neck the same length as a 21 or 22 fret neck?

Last and least, what kind of silly system does the bridge humbuck slot require? No base screw holes, only holes for the plastic frame screws, what is this?!

I love the look of this thing, though it's unfortunate it's not Matsumoku. You gotta love the pink drunken


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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:37 am

Could be this.
http://www.westone.info/cats/88/p4.html

That trem route on yours is definitely for a Floyd Rose. There was a lot of changes around the Jap/Korean move.

Good luck.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:18 am

Yeah... looks like an SP4112 PP alright, with the Bendmaster Deluxe. That would be a standard rout for the BD, I reckon, Damian; my SP1012 has exactly the same rout; could have also had the TRS101 bridge which was a FR clone, but the cat,. seems to plump for a BD!

If you can't find a BD, then you'll have to open the can of worms that is fitting a FR or something similar; someone in here's done it and found out all the bad stuff that happens - Colt933, I think?!

I assume a 21 fr neck will be quite a bit shorter than a 24 but not too much different to a 22 and will throw everything into a cocked hat, scale wise; I've seen a few of these necks come up on the 'bay; if you're patient enough there'll be something come up eventually!!

The bridge pickup - if it's like my Clippers, and I suspect it is! - is actually just two s/c wired together and all of those pickups have individual on/off switches; in the case of the h/b, 1 coil/off/2 coils; silly system and I dislike it! The method of fixing the bridge p'up to the body via the pickup ring isn't new, and I reckon it'll be one of those rings that has 2 adjustment holes on the bass side, and one on the treble!! Bear in mind, too, that the neck bolts are 3 different lengths to allow for that heel ....

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:45 am

If your referring to your red SP1012 double check that route for the bridge.

Looks like the routing for a Bendmaster FR, basically a Floyd Rose

http://www.westone.info/cats/newhorizons/03.html

http://www.westone.info/cats/newhorizons/07.html


Last edited by Westbone on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:31 am

Good job, that's the one!

Well, I'm hoping Westbone is also right about the trem! I don't have a clue how to route a guitar and, again, there is very little margin on this particular one. Mine does have that felt layer on the top part of the cavity and looks like the second link Westbone posted.

I was wondering what kind of combination all those switches should do. I'm thinking of using one for series/parallel and the other for coil splitting (the last one of course for selecting the pup).

For the neck, it's a bit of a nuisance as I wanted to just grab the cheapest on e-bay (because I have never done this sort of work before and wouldn't want to mess up a 150$ esp neck).

The humbucker slot is another drawback as I would like to fit it a GFS pickup or an old dimarzio soapbar format pup I happen to have. Might a bit of hammering and drilling get the job done or do I really have to find a pup with this exotic ring?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Barry on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:21 am

beavis wrote:...For the neck, it's a bit of a nuisance as I wanted to just grab the cheapest on e-bay (because I have never done this sort of work before and wouldn't want to mess up a 150$ esp neck).
Necks lengths are not interchangeable. Guitars are designed to standard scale lengths, generally "F"(Fender) scale or "G" (Gibson) scale, which translates to roughly 25-1/2" and 24-3/4", with the bridge being positioned accordingly.

Although the neck might physically attach OK, as Corsair says, you'll be in a word o' hurt trying to tune it and play it accurately since the mathematical layout of the frets is wrong.
do I really have to find a pup with this exotic ring?
Not necessarily. Humbucker pickup mounting rings are pretty standard items with two adjustment screws which fit standard HB configurations. The 'exotic' 3 screw rings are harder to find but are available. Since you're not matching any existing electronics, install what you want there.

The soapbar pup is another issue. These are designed to be surface mounted not recessed, not really suitable for this guitar. Get a pair of single coils and drop 'em in. No headaches.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:55 am

Thanks Barry!

The catalog says the neck is a 25-1/2 (whatever that means - I'm a metric sort of guy). So I'm now on a quest for finding a neat neck with the right scale, that I intend to scallop, just for the fun of it.

For the pups, I'll get a standard humbucker from GFS, thinking maybe crunchy PAT that I'll try to slot in to one of those rings.

I have an old lace sensor gold, bridge position, any of you know what it would sound like in middle position? Heresy?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:30 am

Westbone wrote:If your referring to your red SP1012 double check that route for the bridge.

Looks like the routing for a Bendmaster FR, basically a Floyd Rose

http://www.westone.info/cats/newhorizons/03.html

http://www.westone.info/cats/newhorizons/07.html

If it's an SP4112, then the bridge should be a BD; if it's a Dimension then yeah, the FR. The FR routing does mean that a standard FR should drop in, do you reckon; as long as the bridge posts have the same spacing!

You're right, though - the routing on mine only has the rubbery bit out to the back whereas this one seems to have that FR rout; "Specifications change without notice"??

The other thing I wonder, just thinking about the neck, is whether any neck from these series of 1987/88/89 guitars would do the trick; after all, my Spectrum II has a neck from a Clipper CL3012, and even the Pantera bolt necks look similar....

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Barry on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:24 pm

beavis wrote:...the neck is a 25-1/2 (whatever that means - I'm a metric sort of guy)....
648 mm

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Need a neck?

Post by fish on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:12 pm

No shortage of necks here Very Happy http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230590124541&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

In fact there's six of'm, see sellers other items

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:57 pm

They're all the Spectrum/Phoenix necks up to 1986; what beavis needs is one of the pointy ones...

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:29 pm

Pointy one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westone-Guitar-Neck-New-Never-Used-/190505080253?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c5afcd5bd

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:01 pm

There ya go, bro - go get it!!

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:27 pm

You will need something like these as well.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Guitar-Bass-Neck-Joint-repair-4-BOLT-ON-MORE-SUSTAIN-/150550711634?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item230d858d52

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:32 am

Ooooh... liking those; shall get a set to just see what's what!! Very Happy Where DO you find all this stuff, man?! Very Happy

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:15 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ




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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:25 am

Wait, wait there's more. Smile
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRAT-ELECTRIC-GUITAR-NECK-BOLT-UPGRADE-KIT-THICK-BODY-/290531854188?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by fish on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:59 am

Westbone wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtlK7sn0JQ





Made my Day Westbone Very Happy yes I need to get a life.

Should be on Corsair's thread; In your opinion, the best cover song recorded?? Only 2 allowed!! cheers

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Oh Westbone, you're great!

Unfortunately, some of these links say the "product is not available in my country due to restrictions" blahblah... Shucks!

I'm sorry for the late reply, I've been extremely overloaded recently... shucks bis!

That bolt system for added sustain seems very cool though. Have any of you tested it?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:54 pm

My Spectrum SP1012 does, but as for increasing sustain, well that's be down to the ears of the listener - it'll be very subtle indeed I'd've thought!! Very Happy

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Barry on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:01 pm

Theoretically it should improve the sustainability, but the question is "by how much?".
Most likely it won't be apparent to the average player, but there is no doubt that he joint will be tighter.

I suspect the main benefit from using bolts is the increased stability and ease of maintenance, plus the knowledge that the wood in the heel is not going to be ripped to pieces by wood screws.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:14 am

Hm, I'll have to think about those sustain-bolts then.

And what do you guys think about getting a cheap neck such as this one (provided the scale is right):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Johnson-Gitarren-Hals-22-B-Ahorn-Pali-incl-Mechanik-/400197215875?pt=Allgemeines_Musikinstrumente_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item5d2d9ce683

I was thinking of adding a locknut (if that's an easy task) and scalloping the frets for some added-value and fun.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:16 am

That neck is not really suitable for a locking nut.
whereabouts are you in this wide world??

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:40 am

I'm in Switzerland.

So I guess it's more complicated than I thought to install a locking nut instead of the bone or plastic nut, hm.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:31 pm

http://cgi.ebay.de/SAMICK-IBANEZ-NECK-HALS-GITARRE-BASTLER-SHARK-INLAYS-/170609470251?pt=Gitarren&hash=item27b91deb2b

Might be of some use, have a measure up.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:05 am

Yeah! That's more like it! I'll write a note to the seller to ask about the scale and if he ships to Switzerland.

Looks like a cool find if the price doesn't seriously rocket in the last day. Thanks a lot Westbone!

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by The Guitar on Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:27 pm

beavis. i have an extra pickup ring with the 3 adjustment holes if you are interested. pm me if so. also, measure the neck pocket width. you can always have the new neck micro routed to fit if its too wide. i have an Ibanez rg 470 neck on a Lotus strat copy body. i had to have the 24th and 23rd frets removed and the sides of the neck heel micro routed.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:11 am

The Guitar, thanks I am indeed very interested! I tried to bid on some old westone pickups with that 3 screw ring but non-uk bidders werent allowed.
If I got it right, this ring will also need a pickup with the 3 adjustment holes; a standard 2 screw pickup won't fit in. Is that correct? I have a dimarzio and a seymour duncan (both unidentified models, I'll post some pics if anyone is capable of telling me what they are) and each are a little wide. I was thinking of filing down the screw plates that stick out on each side for the adjustment screws but am hesitating a little.

For the neck pocket, I do need to measure it, though my main concern is finding a neck with the 25.5 scale (and that's good quality too). I thought ibanez necks were slim, did it fit in the lotus ok?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by The Guitar on Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:58 pm

A standard 2 screw pup will fit. I got a DiMarzio Super 3 for my Fender Prodigy and it came with one of those rings and only the 2 screws. The EMG Select in my Westy is using the standard 2 screws for it's 3 hole ring. I can't remember the Ibby's neck scale, but it was a 24 fretter. After having the 2 frets removed, the Schaller Floyd's saddles had to be moved closer to the neck so the intonation would be more precise.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:52 am

Oh the last 2 frets we're not just an overlap? You sawed off the heel of the neck? Must be a pretty sweet guitar you've got there. I gather the schaller floyds are most outstanding!

Good to know the two screw pickups fit in those rings.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by The Guitar on Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:47 pm

Yeah, they were overlapping onto the neck pup. The Schallers are solid, I also had one on a Charvel. The only heel work that was done was the micro routing on the sides.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by The Guitar on Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:32 am

beavis, on the issue of having to have the 3 screws, you are right. I just noticed whoever had this guitar last drilled an extra hole so it could be used like a standard pickup ring! Razz

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by corsair on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:35 pm

Thanks man... Mad

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:34 am

The guitar: sorry for the late reply. I've been very busy lately (and it's not going to get better). It does seem that the problem is less with the pickup ring that^n the pickup itself since a standard humbucker (dimarzio, SD, younameit) won't fit it the slot. I'm thinking of butchering an unknown seymour duncan I've got, but that might not be wise...

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Continued!

Post by beavis on Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:14 am

Hello all!

I know it's long time no see as I have not been active on the forum for a while (though I have been following loosely what's been going on).

As some might recall, I acquired this SP4112 body about a year ago and have been searching for spares and a nice neck.

Well, things have been moving slowly but I now have the following parts I wish to install:
- some unvarnished, made in China, banana head, neck which looks overall well crafted (except for the 1st fret which is cut a tiny tiny bit short);
- a guitar fetish floyd, the brass block of which is somewhat shorter that the one the guitar was routed for...;
- an unidentied seymour humbucker taken out from another of my guitars;
- a lace sensor gold PU;
- a guitar fetish hot rails (or whatever the exact name is).

I am still missing parts: tuners and electronics but I'm getting there.

Now this is when I desperately need your help Rolling Eyes

I'm a lawyer and unfortunately have absolutely no experience in woodwork or guitar building. My main concern at this point is with the neck.
If I refer to this topic : http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t2318-bendmaster-deluxe-or-a-suitable-replacement?highlight=bendmaster+deluxe , it looks like I will encouter intonation problems... And I don't know what to do. Should I drill the neck, screw it into the guitar, put in some strings and realize that, as expected, the intonation is wrong, or is there some "simpler" way to proceed?
Also, if the scale is indeed too long, can I just shorten the neck, or will I have to lengthen the neck pocket on the guitar (which I don't want to do as there is already hardly over 1cm between the neck pocket and the bridge PU slot)?

I will post some pictures, but as I understand it they will not be up here for 7 days, so I hope my descriptions were precise enough.

Again, I am new to this and would really love your help and assistance throughout this project but perfectly understand if you are unwilling to help as this project is maybe not really related to the aim of this forum.

study


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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:31 am

As mentioned above in my previous post, here are some pictures that might help:






Here you go santa

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:23 am

Measure from your nut(ha,ha,) to the 12th fret, from the 12th fret to the bridge saddles.
What you got?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:20 pm

From nut to 12th fret I get 32.5cm. I get the same thing more or less on my other guitars (32.3-4cm on my strat, 32.5 on all the others).

From 12th fret to bridge, here is the sad part, I get 31cm... whereas the other guitars get a little over 32.5 (32 for my strat).

I hadn't thought of measuring like that. I doesn't look good does it? Looks like I will have to make the neck longer.... I don't think I will manage to gain 1cm by moving the saddles back on the FR; even if I did, I would then have no intonation margin...

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:44 pm

What do you get with the saddles moved back? You should have 2 set screw holes for the saddles and still some movement.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:25 pm

I have 3 screw holes with the guitar fetish floyd. If I move the saddle as far back as possible, I can stretch it to about 31.5cm.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:14 pm

You can only gain 5mm. I would have thought a bit more than that.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:59 pm

Yup.. But my first measurements were not taken with the saddle moved as far forward as possible. But yes, I cannot stretch it to more than 31.5.

I have to make the neck longer now by the look of it... Is glueing a 2.5cm wood block to the bottom of the neck (and drilling a hole inside of it to still be able to access the truss rod) sound like a viable solution?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by grogg on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:22 pm

My mumblings..
The ideal instrument has the 12th fret halfway between nut and bridge (edges from which the string resonates). This would require an action of 0 which is impractical as the strings wouldnt have room to vibrate. So with an action of more than 0, as soon as you press the string onto the fret you increase tension raising the pitch therefore the distance from the 12th fret to the bridge must be greater than it is to the nut to compensate for the effect of increased string tension when played.
2.5cm sounds a lot. Damian?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Barry on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:15 pm

grogg wrote:...2.5cm sounds a lot.
Yes it is. I think you need to look for another neck! Anything you attempt by way of gluing will result in tears methinks. More trouble than it's worth. Neutral

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:38 pm

Are you sure you're measuring this correctly, the scale that is???

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:08 am

Thanks for your advice!

I have measured the distances correctly. That 2.5cm was just a wild guess though.
I don't see how replacing the neck would help as a 25.5 scale neck will always be a 25.5 scale neck, see what I mean. Unless I get somebody to make me a special neck which would be slightly longer. The problem is that this FR differs from the OEM BD Deluxe. I could buy as many necks as I could afford, they would all be too short I suppose.
But if I can find a way of getting the two distances (nut-12th & 12th to bridge) to both be of ~32.5cm (or slightly longer between 12th and bridge as Grogg pointed out), won't that solve the problem?

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by Westbone on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:39 am

Usually the problem with replacing a B/master DL with a F/rose is getting closer to the 12th fret not getting away from it.
Anyway this is difficult without being 'hands on'. Why not try a local geetar shop for some advise.
Good luck.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by beavis on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 am

I've checked pictures of the BD Deluxe and compared to the GFS FR that I have, looks like the saddles are pretty much in the same place. And yet my measurements are right and the neck is a conventional 25.5. Go figure...

I was expecting it to be the way you described things Westbone and the 12th fret being too close to the bridge. Anyway.. Gotta get back to work.

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by grogg on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:29 pm

beavis wrote:I've checked pictures of the BD Deluxe and compared to the GFS FR that I have, looks like the saddles are pretty much in the same place. And yet my measurements are right and the neck is a conventional 25.5. Go figure...

I was expecting it to be the way you described things Westbone and the 12th fret being too close to the bridge. Anyway.. Gotta get back to work.

A spacer would have to be >1cm and then fixing the neck would be an issue, its a non starter for me. The alternatives are moving the bridge back or a different neck. I would go for the latter. Have bought from these guys before and reasonable quality cheap stuff, should have something to fit.

Link

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

Post by grogg on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:44 pm

Have bought from these too, they do damaged stock clearance sometimes and the damage is fairly minimal. Link

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Re: Rebuilding a Westone (Korean)

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