Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DreamRaven on Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:15 am

Corsair

I completely agree with you in all points.

As I do not have the full information on Barry's site, I cannot really pass comment one way or the other.

When www.westone.info comes under my control, I will put content in as close to the original format as it was. Yes, I want it to be 'open to all', but that statement is open to interpretation, and when it comes down to it, it will still be under my control, and who knows what I might feel about it in a year's time. Or what may happen that means that opinions will be split about what to do with it. Yes, I am open for discussion, but I am not going to be bullied in it being a particular way, because a couple of parties feel it should. I wanted it to be the same as it was when everyone was using it and were disappointed when it went away. I do not want it so that I can dictate how it should be used or not used. I will place minor controls on hotlinking images, and possibly automatic watermarking, to stop people just grabbing images for fleabay auctions. No one wants their bandwidth abused, but other than that... almost nothing.

If you want another site for research, or to be a particular way, all I can say it, go ahead, make it so, number one. Everyone has as much power as me (or Thorn, or Mark Zuckerburg) to make and control a site and then have full ability to make it how you want it to be

I also believe that there SHOULD be multiple ways of getting the information, which means that no one person (including me) will have the power to say 'it is my ball, and you are not playing'. If all of them exist side by side and link to each other, and possibly share information, the community will build.

As stated before, if you need anything, all you need to do is ask.

DreamRaven

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by norfolkngood on Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:29 am


Good news Raven, top job!

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by The Chad on Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:48 am

Thank you DreamRaven, I am appreciative of you taking your time and talents to do what you're doing. I'm sure that I speak for many.

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by The Chad on Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:37 am

Barry wrote:as mentioned in previous posts here, and in a PM to you offline, John (Corsair) and I have been working intensely behind the scene to set up a new site at www.westoneguitars.net. From a personal stand point I have spent several long days of work accumulating information and assembling the bones of the new site.

Just checked it out, and great job on what you've done Gentlemen! Looks like a great skeleton and format.

For those of you who don't know, building this sort of thing takes a lot of work, time, and care, which Barry and John have invested for everyone's benefit. Time and effort of this sort require much sacrifice, as time especially doesn't come easy which we all know. Whatever you guys choose to do, we'll help you the best we can.

Glad to be part of a bunch of guys who care enough to do something, thanks to all. cheers

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by danagos on Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:35 am

I'd like to express my appreciation to Dreamraven, Barry, Corsair and all involved in making the archives available, now and in the future.

Thank you for your efforts.

My thanks also to Thorn for having put it together in the first place.

It's a massive undertaking and there will be abuses. My advice is do what you can and must to prevent them and move on.

Those of us who hold Westone Guitars in high regard are indebted to you for the time, sweat, love and money you have spent preserving the heritage.

Again, thank you very much,

Dan

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by basstones on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:02 am

I'd like to express my appreciation to Dreamraven, Barry, Corsair and all involved in making the archives available, now and in the future.

Thank you for your efforts.

My thanks also to Thorn for having put it together in the first place.

It's a massive undertaking and there will be abuses. My advice is do what you can and must to prevent them and move on.

Those of us who hold Westone Guitars in high regard are indebted to you for the time, sweat, love and money you have spent preserving the heritage.

Again, thank you very much,

+1...Well said!

Brian

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DreamRaven on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:09 am

ditto, ditto and thrice I say ditto to what 'The Chad' said. I know exactly how much effort this line of work takes, am always glad when someone else steps up to the plate.

I think the structure and framework are on the button. I only hope my merchandise gets represented in the shop area!

My only negative comment might be about the 'cats' nav link. First I thought Corsair may have found a litter of tattooed felines, or possibly some amazing wood routing millIpedes, it never crossed my mind it would be 'catalogues, adverts and flyers'

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by munkieNL on Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:00 am

Kudos to DreamRaven and Barry for putting in the hard work. I have set up sites in the past, i know how much work it is. I have my Westone guitar pics online on Photobucket, if you need them let me know. If we all would contribute pics of our Westones we could set up a might y Westone Gallery! Twisted Evil Wink

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Linking to the locked Iceman thread

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:02 am

Barry

Just curious about the point you made over there

For the record:
The fact is that we do not own the westone.info site, and never have, and still don't. That's how we came to "lose" it in the first place. What we're working on is moving the information "in house", that is under our own domain site. That's the one which hosts this forum.
I have been developing an alternative site and you can check the progress here: NEW SITE

I am in the process of transferring the westone.info domain, which, technically will mean that I will own it. But the only reason I am dealing with it is for the general use of the forum members (and any other person on the face of the planet who is interested in Westone Guitars), so the forum, as good as is possible, 'owns' the data.

True, that does indeed mean that _we_ will not own it, but I guess that depends on who this _we_ is. We are all unique entities on this forum, and the only person who _owns_ this forum is the person who owns the domain and pays for the hosting. However that happens it is likely to be the responsibility of an individual, be it a human being, or a business concern. Now, I know the name and address of that person and it isn't really relevant to disclose that here, especially as I do not know the real names of many of the forum users, and is, in the end, immaterial.

So, in the end, _we_ do not own anything. Yes, we may all be pulling in similar directions for a while, but, as displayed by Thorn, who was pulling in a similar direction, human beings have the ability to change their minds and make decisions for themselves that may not be agreed with by the other people who were pulling with them.

So, is the point you making: "But, I do not own it", or are you making another point? What happens to westoneguitars.net if you have a mind set change, or something else? I am not being aggressive, because in the end, we all must pass on, but it could happen to anyone at anytime, but life goes on. In the end, none of us get to own anything forever.

I have declared, in this public place, that I will re-instate the westone.info site back as it was, with a small amount of link advertising to my company to balance the time and money spent on hosting. I doubt that anything else, other than that will change. If, for whatever reason, I decide to change that, I will again, publicly state what I am going to do, why I am going to do it, and give someone else the opportunity to carry the baton.

You have created what looks like a more dynamic, easily digestible, and better organised framework for the information, and it is great that it now lives alongside the forum. One of the things that I will do when I tweak the westone.info site is place an obvious link to the new site on every page, so that the old links get people to the new site.

I for one, am looking forward to learning more about the Rail Guitar. Has anyone ever played one? The small amount that I have read (here and elsewhere) states that it didn't work as well as the Rail bass, but I am interested in hearing more about it.

I am already getting mail telling me the things are wrong on some details on some guitars on the westone.info site. Now, that is expected, but I do not have the inclination or expertise to judge or marshall any of these claims (the benefit of a Wiki is that whomever has the expertise gets the opportunity to at least make a vote or argument as to what they believe is correct), so I may, if I feel inclined, put the questions on the forum and cross link the information so that those with the expertise, or at least, an example of the guitars, pass comment.

Anyhow. The reason for this post is not to start, or continue, an argument. I am happy that westone.info will still live. I am happy that the site that is taking shape on westoneguitars.net exists, and is likely to end up being the go to place for all Westone Info, I am just curious about the statement of 'in house', and what that actually means. Who is in control and what happens if that person has a mindset change?

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Barry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:51 am

munkieNL wrote:...I have my Westone guitar pics online on Photobucket, if you need them let me know. If we all would contribute pics of our Westones we could set up a might y Westone Gallery!
That's exactly the goal! Thanks for the kind offer of help. When we're organized enough and ready to receive the information an "official" announcement will be made via John (Corsair). Cheers!

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Barry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:25 am

dreamraven wrote:The reason for this post is not to start, or continue, an argument. I am happy that westone.info will still live. I am happy that the site that is taking shape on westoneguitars.net exists, and is likely to end up being the go to place for all Westone Info, I am just curious about the statement of 'in house', and what that actually means. Who is in control and what happens if that person has a mindset change?
Keiran, I have no intention of entering into a public debate over semantics.
I think what I wrote was clear and succinct: "in house", as already stated, means under this (our) domain, westoneguitars.net. Simple.
That is in no way a slam at you or your generous hosting and managing of the .INFO site for the membership.

This domain and forum site was created and funded by a fellow Westie enthusiast, and until recently he served as the site Admin. Corsair now performs that function, but the originator remains a solid supporter behind the scenes. And I can tell you it is a major support, both technically and financially. We cannot thank him enough for this!

I have said several times that there are events transpiring in the background that only a few are aware of, and they keep changing which makes it hard to maintain a balanced approach to all this. Our benefactor was made a completely unexpected offer this week which has again changed our response.

So, is the point you making: "But, I do not own it", or are you making another point?
You have misquoted me. I did not say "I", it was "we". Again, I think that was very clearly written, as a matter of fact. However well intentioned, until the data resides within this domain, yes, we de facto do not own or control it. The current effort is to make sure that no one need ever to go through this again. That's all.

I'm just a forum member here like you, trying to do my best to support the forum that has been such a great source of information and comradery to me. I'm not in charge. I'm just a guy contributing what I can to support Corsair and the membership.


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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by corsair on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:52 am

Hmmm... I'm not sure I like the idea that I'm in any way "in charge", eh; at the moment I have the stewardship of the site and endeavour to keep as hands off as I can and let things run as far as they may.

However, I think that we are all pulling in the same direction as DR stated and to that end I feel that a new companion site, under the aegis of this host would be a damned good idea, simply because this is very much your forum, guys - not mine, not Barrys, not DRs.. yours and even though we are forever indebted to Neil for stumping up the readies - and hopefully keeping a weather eye on me!! - if it wasn't for the guys and gals who post in here and talk, discuss and occasionally argue, then the site would have little value. As it stands I see incredible value in here precisely because there are SO many people willing to accept the yoke, unbidden and unheralded, so lets get on with enjoying our Westones; both in our hands and in cyberspace!!

I, too, have a copy of Thorns data, so there's enough copies of it floating about to be sure that even if I, or anyone else, throw the biggest wobbly of all time and throw the toys out of the cot, there will always a backup somewhere, and as the new guys become the old guys in here, they too will know what's going on behind the scenes, and be able to help.

Now ... onto other stuff that DR bought up.... I think the Rail guitar that Tom Presley alluded to in a communication somewhere was a prototype, and never a production instrument?? Am I right in that, someone?? And be very wary of people claiming that the data from .info is incorrect; he may have created a mild panic in here, but he is - at the moment and for the foreseeable future - the expert on the Westone guitars produced by Matsumoku and I would back his data against anybodys!! He even had quite a handle on the others as well, though that wasn't his area of interest..

I'll tell you, fellas, I'm actually starting to look forward to seeing the information presented both via DR and especially via Barry now that the initial "Oh my God; what the f**k are we gonna do now?!?!" situation seems to have been left behind!! I say a heartfelt thanks to both and, as always, stand ready to help where and when I can...

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:03 am

Barry wrote:I have said several times that there are events transpiring in the background that only a few are aware of, and they keep changing which makes it hard to maintain a balanced approach to all this. Our benefactor was made a completely unexpected offer this week which has again changed our response.

Which is exactly based on the point I am making. There is another party, who is silent, behind the scenes and unknowable to many forum members. It is he who owns this site. I do not want to make anyone think I have anything other than extremely neutral attitude to this party. I do not know him, but he is as likely as anyone to do what he wants with this, his site. I appreciate that things have to be hidden and behind the scenes for many reasons.

Barry wrote:You have misquoted me. I did not say "I", it was "we". Again, I think that was very clearly written, as a matter of fact. However well intentioned, until the data resides within this domain, yes, we de facto do not own or control it. The current effort is to make sure that no one need ever to go through this again. That's all.

Barry, I was NOT quoting you, if I was, I would have encased the statement in the quote tag. I am just trying to deduce, without all the facts, where the 'we' starts and ends.

You say that 'we' own it, but if the owner of the domain/server is not part of the forum (what I am deducing is your definition of 'we'), or leaves the forum, or gets upset with a party on the forum, they have the ability to flick the switch on the site, as Thorn did with westone.info. Leaving the 'we' powerless and outside in the cold. That goes as much for westone.info as it does for any other site on the interweb.

Again, I don't want to get into a fight, or make you feel I am against you, I am not. I am running alongside, in the same general direction as you. My journey did not start in the same place, and is unlikely to end in the same place, but for now, we are running on the same road. I just don't want someone else to put a gate across that road whilst I am running.

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All hail Corsair!

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:08 am

The stewardship of this site is in good hands.

Played my Thunder III AND my Rail yesterday. All told, about 3 hours of Westone noodling, with about 30 minutes of Les Paulism to boot.

I went looking for the Rail Guitar having read Tom's 'history' on the new site, just to get a picture of it, and found someone who has photos of a pink one that they say they own and have played. "It is tiny" is pretty much all I can get from their site

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Barry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:32 am

corsair wrote:...I think the Rail guitar that Tom Presley alluded to in a communication somewhere was a prototype, and never a production instrument?? Am I right in that, someone??...
Yup. He writes about it in the HISTORY section of the "new" site (see, "Rail Basses and Guitars") which was taken from his posts here! He had no luck in getting rid of the resonance so they never made production. The picture on the INFO site is a rare one indeed.

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Barry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:44 am

DreamRaven wrote:...Barry, I was NOT quoting you, if I was, I would have encased the statement in the quote tag.
Don't talk nonsense! It's irrelevant if you used the friggin' "quote tag" or not. You did use quotation marks, and you did misquote me. Text or tag, quotation marks mean the same thing! And you used a text quotation (" "). Do you now want to start arguing English composition and grammar? Please stop.

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Barry

I was not quoting you, english semantics or not, I was asking a question. What I was asking was along the lines of:

"You say that 'we' own this new site, when there is no evidence that anyone else involved on this forum, has any control over this new site, its domain, or its hosting, so how do 'we' own this site, when there is every evidence that the only people or person who owns the site is the person listed as the registrar of the domain, which up until your recent revelation was thought by me to be you. If that is the case, than how are 'we' in a better position, if you, or this hidden third party, have a personality crisis and flick the switch? Added to the fact that the content placed here by posters, under their user name, their text, their photos, what have you, may be lifted and used elsewhere without their permission, or at least credit being given, because 'we' do not actually own (or more importantly, have any control over) this entity/forum/website/server" (note the use of my 'quotation' marks?)

If I wanted to 'quote' you, and for the quote to have any point, especially for one that short, I would have quoted you accurately. Whereas, I purposely wrote what I wrote, KNOWING that I had written something different from what you had said, because I wanted to ask you a question on that very point.

The quotation marks in written English have a number of uses, one of which you are correct in stating, but the other uses are stated here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark and include: Quotations and speech, Irony, Signaling unusual usage, Use–mention distinction, Titles of artistic works, Nicknames and false titles.

The Quote mark is also known as 'speech marks' which was the usage that I was calling on, no matter how you interpret it. If I wrote "Corsair", would you think I was quoting him, using irony, speaking his name, naming an artistic work, or what? Everything is open to your interpretation, but your interpretation in this case is wrong.

I am also aware that the statement I have made above is directly relevant to the Westone.info site and situation, which is why I am glad that Thorn supplied Corsair a copy of the site, something that I was pushing for him to do to anyone and everyone who asked for it. He, when he released the data to me did not suggest immediately that he was going to do that, but I am glad that he did decide to.

One of the things that *I think* upset Thorn was the wholehearted lifting of his content that he had created, curated, found, collated and served. It was being used and abused without any reference to that fact that he had put the effort in, and he was getting nothing back but hassle from it. The site that I will serve will have what controls I can put to reduce this, but I know that it is completely impossible to stop it: "Because, it is on the internet, therefore it is mine and I can do what I like" (that was a faux quotation, because I don't know anyone who has actually said that phrase to me, directly)

I will repeat again, that I am glad that you are doing the job that you are doing, it is a good job, and one that needs doing. But 'we' do not own it, in the same way 'we' did not and do not own westone.info. Interpret away.

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Barry on Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:51 pm

What part of "Please stop" do you not understand?

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by hoax on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:01 pm

Guys - This whole thing needs to stop now. Do it via PM,s as it is not serving a useful purpose for most users. We are all here because we love our guitars. Let's get on with furthering our knowledge and keep the bickering private.


Very Happy

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by hobster on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Wheres the love?? Very Happy

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Rail Guitar

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:30 pm

Barry wrote: He writes about it in the HISTORY section of the "new" site (see, "Rail Basses and Guitars") which was taken from his posts here! He had no luck in getting rid of the resonance so they never made production. The picture on the INFO site is a rare one indeed.

Exactly what I got from that section, but doing a search for an image (rather than searching in the typical Google search, which just turns up my temp site, with content from the .info site), displays this page:
http://www.nwlink.com/~paulcl/guitars/x189playerpage/x189player.htm
Right at the bottom of the page is a Rail guitar in pink.

Which is a completely different guitar, with a completely different humbucker (in black and white) in place, along with the fact that the 'body' shape is completely different from the black photo shown on the .info site, which looks much closer to my Rail bass. The fact that the bridge on the pink one is described as being wood and plastic, maybe suggests that it is another prototype or a design investigation. The Westone logo on the bridge cover of the pink one looks awful, with the Westone words being in capitals and not joined together.

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DreamRaven on Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:45 pm

Another forum with the owner discussing it and comparing it to the Black Rail from .info

http://www.rivercityamps.com/electraforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2390

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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Post by corsair on Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:11 pm

DreamRaven wrote:Another forum with the owner discussing it and comparing it to the Black Rail from .info

http://www.rivercityamps.com/electraforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2390

That's the admin/owner of the Electra site; his collection would make your eyes water...

http://www.rivercityamps.com/electraforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3621

..I never tire of having a troll through there!! Hell of nice guy, too...

I reckon, too, that we've pretty much exhausted this particular thread so I'll lock it, eh.....


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Re: Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

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