Possible FT bridge replacement??

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Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:53 pm

Here's something that's usually very cheap and could be very usefull.
There was one in my local cash converters today, will have a little measure up see what's what.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/old-vintage-coaster-Encore-6-six-string-Electric-Guitar-/290578661540?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item43a7d680a4

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Hmmm... they'd be even more uncommon than the FT bridges, I reckon!! Laughing But, OMG - it has quite a whiff of Westone about it, doesn't it....

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:13 pm

That's 2 of those Encore bridges in 1 day, uncommon, cheap guitars. will have a measure up tomorrow.
Getting a replacement type bridge for around 45 squid can't be that bad. Better than no string claws at all...
If you look closely it looks a not bad design. A bit more robust than the string claws. Worth checking out. Twisted Evil

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:24 am

Post distance 73/74mm, only had their in shop tape.

So will fit.

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Replacement for Bendmaster FT

Post by rick on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:03 am

I have Dimension IV I bought brand new in 1986. one of the string retainer claws finally broke. (Not bad for 25 years of use) After an extensive search for replacement parts I deceided to search for an entire replacement system. The Floyds require the neck to be shimmed in order to obtain proper intonation. I located a FR licensed replacement on Guitar Fetish. It is black and made of high quality material. Not the pot metal so many are made of. It dropped right in. I even left the original posts in. Perect scale/intonation. It is also a fastload design so no cutting strings. You can use any strings you want! It was only $80 shipped! Here is the link.

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Black-Floyd-Rose-Fastloader-Locking-Tremolo-System_p_110.html

I have been using it for a couple months and it performs GREAT.

I hope this helps as there seem to be a lot of people searching for bendmaster replacement parts.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Barry on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am

That's wonderful news Rick! cheers
Mine is OK for now (fingers crossed) but I know many here have been searching for a repair solution to their busted bridges, so this sounds like it's a dream come true.

Unless I hear something to the contrary I think this deserves a posting on WestoneGuiars.net, FixMe section.
Damian? John? Whatcherthink?

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Replacement for Bendmaster

Post by rick on Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:09 am

Cool. You can't believed how happy I was to find it. I had been searching for parts for months! I had a Luthier friend of mine check out all of the specs before ordering. He was shocked too. He said he was going to start recommending these to alot of his customers. They are much cheaper than a Floyd and very well made. There was a substantial weight differnece between the Bendmaster and the new one. (New one much heavier). Not to mention much more sustain. But with all due respect, the bendmaster was 25 yrs old and subjected to ALOT of use.

It was a great find. God's always working!

Let me know if anyone has any questions regarding installation or performance.

Rick

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by The Chad on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:12 pm

This is perfect info for my soundman at church, he has a Dimension IV with a busted bridge. Just last Sunday we talked about him getting playing again, I was thinking about what bridge to use since then. Great timing Rick! You're right, God is always working, directly involved if you let Him. Cool

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Replacement bridge for Dimension IV

Post by rick on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:03 pm

Amen Brother! Let me know if your sound guy has any questions. I can walk him through the install. It's a pretty straight forward install. If his posts are still in good shape make sure he leaves them in.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:22 pm

That's good to know.

Guitarfetish do a lot of good quality stuff at very reasonable prices.
You want to try out their Brighton rocks pups or most of their stuff.

Sustain blocks ect. Can't speak highly enough of them. Good company to deal with as well. Smile

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Repalcement Bridge for Dimension IV

Post by rick on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:42 pm

My friend who is a luthier said the same thing about Guitar Fetish. I did spend some time on their site when I found the trem. Turned into one of those " I want that and that and that and..." sessions. lol Smile I also have a BC Rich Bich SE that I am going to put this trem on.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:45 pm

Barry wrote:That's wonderful news Rick! cheers
Mine is OK for now (fingers crossed) but I know many here have been searching for a repair solution to their busted bridges, so this sounds like it's a dream come true.

Unless I hear something to the contrary I think this deserves a posting on WestoneGuitars.net, FixMe section.
Damian? John? Whatcherthink?

Yep; sounds good!! Very Happy

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by hobster on Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:51 pm

Westbone wrote:That's good to know.

Guitarfetish do a lot of good quality stuff at very reasonable prices.
You want to try out their Brighton rocks pups or most of their stuff.

Sustain blocks ect. Can't speak highly enough of them. Good company to deal with as well. Smile

Thats good to hear, i have had the same good experience with them as well. Everything i've purchased has been good quality, even though one of my buddies don't dig them. He thinks its cheap stuff but i disagree. Its nice to see good reviews on this forum cause you guys know you're s**t!
Thanks for the info rick, that seems to be the number one problem around here, i had a Bendmaster go out on one of my axes as well.

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Replacement Bridge

Post by rick on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:09 am

No problem hobster. I'm glad this may help alot of folks. It really put my ax back into daily service. My luthier was so impressed with the quality of this trem he is using/recommending it on many other models (Fender, Jackson, BC Rich) as a quality-low cost solution.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Barry on Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:39 pm

This item has now been added to the FixMe section.
Thanks again Rick!

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FT Replacement Bridge

Post by rick on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:21 pm

You are very Welcome Barry. I'm really glad I was able to help some of my fellow Westone players. I'd love to hear other sucess stories.

Rick

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neck shim needed for FR replacement trem?

Post by orion4713111 on Tue May 29, 2012 9:41 pm

Rick, what did you mean by the neck needs to be shimmed (sorry, newbie guitar tech here)?

I have the exact same guitar as you. just took the bridge apart and (along with 2 bent/deformed claws) found a friggin block of wood somebody stuck in there...no wonder i could only dive with the thing...and even then if i touched the trem ONE TIME, the whole guitar went out of tune.

if this FR drops right in, i'll buy one yesterday!

Thanks,
orion

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Wed May 30, 2012 1:50 am

It means that the neck has to have a very slim piece of plastic or something put in the neck pocket between the body and the heel of the neck to achieve the proper string to fingerboard angle. I'm picking that the FR sits either higher or lower than the the Bendmaster, hence the need for a little adjustment.

Just to be clear here; are your claws broken or just deformed and workable? because I've been giving both my Bendmaster bridges a caning today and they are both very good indeed at staying in tune... I've done all of those things that the widdly-widdly guitarists do - divebombs, taking it down slowly on a pinch harmonic, until the strings are flapping in the breeze and then bringing it back to pitch and I was quite surprised at the stability, especially on the Deluxe! So if yours is still working, why change it out? And Kahler sell individual string claws that fit the FT bridges, too!!

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by The Chad on Wed May 30, 2012 11:02 am

orion4713111 wrote:Rick, what did you mean by the neck needs to be shimmed (sorry, newbie guitar tech here)?

I have the exact same guitar as you. just took the bridge apart and (along with 2 bent/deformed claws) found a friggin block of wood somebody stuck in there...no wonder i could only dive with the thing...and even then if i touched the trem ONE TIME, the whole guitar went out of tune.

if this FR drops right in, i'll buy one yesterday!

Thanks,
orion

Orion, I'm in Harrisburg, right next door to you. If you buy the bridge, I'll help you install it if you want. Let me know.

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bendmaster

Post by orion4713111 on Wed May 30, 2012 4:53 pm

Thanks corsair and Chad.

I'm a shop teacher (22 years), so I'm very experienced woodworker and fairly experienced electronics but i've never done any of those things to my beloved guitar! near-zero guitar tech experience here.

Corsair, I've owned this guitar since 87 and it has always gone out of tune after a single trem dive (so i never use the trem). dunno who put the little wood block in there, but that was physically preventing trem "climbs" (term?). i was able to re-form one claw with a pliers, but the other broke. i guess i could try some new claws first and see what happens.

Chad, if the trem doesn't work well with new claws, I'll definitely take you up on that offer. Thanks!

ps: i noticed the trem springs were attached to hooks # 2, 3 and 4 (see pic). was that right or should they be on #1, 3 and 5, as I have them now?

orion


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Ft Replacement

Post by rick on Wed May 30, 2012 6:49 pm

Hello,
I'm sorry at the delay in getting back to you. The explanation of the shim was partly accurate. Shimming is also used to lengthen the neck to achieve proper intonation if the bridge does not have the range of adjustment needed. That is the case with the Floyd Rose Trems on a Westone. They do not have the adjustment range to achieve proper intonation as the neck scale on a Westone is slightly different than what the FR was designed for. Therefore you have to lengthen the Nut to Bridge distance slightly on a Westone. However, this procedure is not required with the replacement bridge I used and can be found at the Guiter Fetish link in the previous postings. It is made of high quality material and literally drops right in. The only difference is the threading on the post bolts. So if your current post bolts are worn you will need to pull the old thread inserts and replace them with the new ones in order to install the new posts. If the old ones are in great shape you can just leave them in. I am still using this ax daily and am still very satisfied with the performance of the new trem. Stays in tune with much dive and rise motion. Also, If you need to replace the locking nut I would reccomend blocking it up slightly as the replacement one is a very low profile. Hopefully your current one is in good shape and you won't have to replace it.

On your comment about your ax going out of tune. I would check your nut to make sure it is clean and smooth and still in good shape. If it is worn irregularly or damaged, that would cause the ax to go out with the slightest trem movement. A way to check it is to tune your guitar. Then with a very fine marker, put a mark on each string directly behind the nut. Flex the trem up and down. If that mark does not stay exactly in its original location you may need some nut work. This procedure will allow you to see exactly which grooves on the nut require service. The Westones came with a graphite nut which should last a very long time with proper care. Perhaps someone replaced it somewhere along the way and did not install or set it up correctly.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.


Rick

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uh oh...

Post by orion4713111 on Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:08 am

i'm also missing one of the intonation adjustment screws. anybody know where i can get a replacement?

thanks for the clarification, rick. i'm going to try the kahler claws first, and if i'm not happy i'll buy the FR.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:47 am

orion4713111 wrote:i'm also missing one of the intonation adjustment screws. anybody know where i can get a replacement?

You mean the long skinny one out the back of the saddle? They are available from most reputable dealers; Stewmac et al, I would have thought...

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Victory Pete on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:30 am

rick wrote:I have Dimension IV I bought brand new in 1986. one of the string retainer claws finally broke. (Not bad for 25 years of use) After an extensive search for replacement parts I deceided to search for an entire replacement system. The Floyds require the neck to be shimmed in order to obtain proper intonation. I located a FR licensed replacement on Guitar Fetish. It is black and made of high quality material. Not the pot metal so many are made of. It dropped right in. I even left the original posts in. Perect scale/intonation. It is also a fastload design so no cutting strings. You can use any strings you want! It was only $80 shipped! Here is the link.



I have been using it for a couple months and it performs GREAT.

I hope this helps as there seem to be a lot of people searching for bendmaster replacement parts.



I think I might need this Tremolo, my Floyd isnt going to work quite right. Can anyone comment further on these? Guitar fetish is right nearby in Massachusetts, I would like to get more confirmations on the "Drop In" aspect of this. Thanks

VP



PS I cant post the link to this Tremolo because I am a newbie

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Barry on Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:01 am

We believe forum member Rick, and others subsequently, when he says it "dropped right in" and it works! It literally drops into the existing routing. Honestly, what more "confirmation" could you possibly need?

We even offer it on our information web site: LINK

A FR is not the answer as everyone who has tried it has discovered. This GFS is.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Victory Pete on Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:05 am

Barry wrote:We believe forum member Rick, and others subsequently, when he says it "dropped right in" and it works! It literally drops into the existing routing.
Honestly, what more "confirmation" could you possibly need?

A FR is not the answer as everyone who has tried it has discovered. This GFS is.



I have sent him a PM. "Honestly", I would like some specific confirmation, type and year Westone he has, string gauge, action, neck relief, there are many variables. Do you have any experience with that bridge?



VP

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Exactly Iceman, you had the perfect opportunity.

AND, didn't even try.

So, apart from actually buying one and trying one.

Who to this day knows? for sure. Anyone???

I don't think they're a direct replacement

The saddles are way off to the posts.

Please prove me wrong.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Iceman on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:09 pm

For the "standard" Spectrum range with a 74mm post spacing they fit the posts like a glove. I still maintain that the length of travel of the saddles looked sufficient to achieve proper intonation.

This is not over yet, Damian. I am taking a second cut at it this weekend...

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Iceman on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:45 pm

Well gentlemen if this cannot convince some of you I am out of ideas. The password is gfs_fl_1 ...

http://s1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii510/tarsava/gfs_fastloader/

"Dropped it right in" my xa1330 after presetting the saddle travel by eye to match...

http://www.westoneguitars.net/guitars/spectrum-series/spectrum-iii/

Strung it up, tuned it up and affraid BOB'S YER FREAKIN' UNCLE!!! affraid

And yes, e'en though that Spec III variant had a BMD in it the measured distance from the bottom edge of the nut to the center of the posts is a gnat's naughty bits under 3/32" (a touch over 2mm for our brothers over the pond) longer than my Spectrum FX.

I took the time to take that trem to work this week and get a precise measurement of the length of travel of the saddles on the CMM and it checks approximately 8.5mm so it should intone NO PROBLEMO... and it did. cheers

The discussion continues...


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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:03 pm

Band good job! Win, right there!

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Barry on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Cheers for doing the extra work Steve. Perhaps that will be sufficient "confirmation" now? Yay!

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Iceman on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:52 pm

I also ended up chancing across this lovely little number they just recently began stocking...

https://guitarfetish.3dcartstores.com/NEW-BLACK-Super-Heavy-Duty-Floyd-Rose-trem-BRASS-STEEL_p_510.html

Was looking over the site as a result of your alert notification on their ongoing clearance sale Barry, ordered one Tuesday and it arrived Friday. Makes the original model we have been discussing here look like a booger almost.

3 tapped holes for screwing down the saddle travel due to an added 3/16" of travel available, solid brass sustain block w/ all steel construction otherwise, the post receivers are rivet pressed into a crossbar with 2 screw holes for additional attachment strength to the body. Virtually feels like a small tank in hand.

The only "drawback" is it is truer to the original FR design in it uses lock blocks at the bridge so you have to cut off the brass stringer ends and insert the cut wire, so abit more involved in a restring that the Fastloader design of the other. BIG BIG plus is the straightedge design of the pivot point on the low E side of the unit. It easily will fit a narrower spacing of 72mm (like the WE1400cs I need it for) and work out to at least 76mm. In this respect it mimics the FR licensed replacement that Gotoh builds but those run into the $200+ range in price.

GuitarFetish is quickly becoming MYfetish... So Happy

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Barry on Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:57 pm

Great news again!
I've been a big fan of GFS for some time now, I have yet to receive or read a bad word about either their products or service.

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Got the Bridge!

Post by orion4713111 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:36 pm

Hey guys,

The Floyd Rose from Guitar Fetish really does drop right in my Dimension IV like rick says. My only issue is the springs rub on the floor of the opening (see white arrows on pic below). Is it OK to take a wood chisel and remove some wood at those points? I'm an old woodshop teacher, so I got the skills to do it without trashing my guitar.

Another question: old bridge had 3 springs. New FR came with 4 springs. Is it ok to go with just 3, attached to "hooks" #1, #3, and #5? if i need to use all 4, which hooks should they be attached to? 

Thanks!
orion

pic:
https://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/55/26/05/graphi12.jpg

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by The Chad on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:41 am

Hey Todd, just PM'd you...

What's odd is that the stock Westone sustain block is 45mm whereas the largest commercially available sustain block is only 42mm.  Obviously this leaves a deficit.  I'm going through the same thing with my amazing Dynasty.  You can have custom sustain blocks milled for you but it'll cost you!  I'd go with a 42mm block and route the back.

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sustain block 32mm?

Post by orion4713111 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:54 am

Crap, the sustain block on my Floyd (the one rick linked to top of this thread) is only 32mm...and I already routed out the back. Doesn't look pretty, but the springs don't drag.

32mm would explain why the sustain isn't very impressive...at least compared to the original bendmaster (45mm), right? is it a longer or heavier block that gives you more sustain? or both?

Rick, how big is the sustain block on your Floyd? Wonder if FR downsized it for some reason since you bought yours? 

Huh...just noticed that there's no "LICENSED UNDER FLOYD ROSE PATS" stamped on the body, but there is in the pic on GF. Hmmmmmmm. Wonder if mine's a "cheapo pot metal bridge"...like the GF description guy goes out of his way to say it's not.

As for the number of springs: I used 2 and adjusted the trem horizontal with the spring hook screws. only a couple minor intonation adjustments needed.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by corsair on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:04 am

I have always reckoned the sustain block acts less of a sustain type of thing and more of a mass balance for the whole bridge deal when it's all set up and doing its thing. That said, a larger, heavier piece of steel or cast iron/pot metal must have some sort of effect on the sound and longer sustain of a plucked note is likely, though I doubt that it could be picked up by ear alone!!Smile 
2 springs on a floating bridge will make for a very sensitive touch, and I guess there won't be any leaning the heel of your hand on it!! Palm muting could be interesting!!
I use 3 or 4 springs, and have the claw as tight as I can possibly go, given the limitations that my preferred string gauge allow!!

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FWIW, an after market esoteric nut is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and a great way to convert your money into someone else’s.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by The Chad on Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:28 am

The sustain blocks come standard in either 32mm, 34mm, 37mm, or 42mm.  You have got the smallest one made.  

A smaller sustain block has less mass, hence less sustain.  The best you could hope for may be a Floyd (or copy) with a 42mm Brass block.  

If you can, I'd return it and get one with a 42mm.  If you can't, then consider selling it and buying a different one.  What makes for a good Floyd is steel saddles, steel base plate (the thicker the better), and a brass block (the more mass the better).  Pot metal doesn't sound as good, I've heard comparisons.  Pot metal is softer and doesn't give you the bottom end or "balls" that brass does.  Brass is the way to go.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by orion4713111 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:58 am

Is there anything special about the sustain block that I can't do myself with a milling machine, tap and die set, and a drill press? If not, I could make my own.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by The Chad on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:33 am

Make your own if you can.  If you have the tools and skill.  Have a look here to see what you'll be making... CLICK YOUR MOUSE RIGHT HERE! May be more trouble to make one however.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by orion4713111 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:20 pm

yeah, Chad...I'll probly just buy one.

some great instructional vids on the fu-tone.com website!

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Guitar Fetish customer service pathetic

Post by orion4713111 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:12 am

Here's the transcript of my emails with John from GF:

Me: ORDER AB-117224 Item D07 dropped right in my Westone Dimension IV (replaced Bendmaster tremolo). I am a bit disappointed with the sustain compared to the original, though. The block is only 32mm, which I've since learned is about the smallest available. That spec should have been noted in the item description. The description says, "You want sustain? Fuhgeddaboutit?", so I was expecting a bit more. Also, the item pictured on your site has "LICENSED UNDER FLOYD ROSE PATS" stamped on the body. mine does not. is that significant? Thanks, Todd


GF: Todd,  These tremolos don't have the "licensed under Floyd rose patent" stamp because the patent ran out.  Anyone can make these now.  Thanks, John


Me: ORDER# AB-117224 ITEM D07 which one of your sustain blocks fits this tremolo unit? no mention of how long your blocks are. I'd like 42mm if you have it. thanks, Todd


GF: Todd,  Unfortunately, we only sell replacement tremolo blocks for six screw strat tremolos. Thanks, John


Me: ok, what ARE the specs for this tremolo so I can go buy a block somewhere else? either that or I'll return it.


...18 hours later with no response from GF and only one day left on the return period...


Me: ok John, it's apparent you have no interest in providing any type of customer service. you've twice ignored my request for specs on this unit. all i wanted to know is what screw configuration it uses for the sustain block: import 10.5mm, mexico 10.5mm, USA2-7/32", etc.

further, i believe you misrepresented the performance of it too. The sustain really is "Fuhgeddable," which isn't surprising considering the block is one of the smallest sizes available.

i'll be returning the unit tomorrow for a full refund, and I'll be copying and pasting the transcript of this episode to the several online guitar forums of which i'm a member, including the one that led me to your site.

unhappy and disappointed, Todd

GF: [insert cricket sounds here]

I didn't feel like taking the thing back off my guitar, so i kept it on. this Guitar Fetish dude is a douche. Beware.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

Post by Westbone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:38 am

The trem you purchased has no relevance to the strat trem replacement  blocks they sell.

The strat trem has holes in the block for the string anchor at varying
distances ie. 'F' spaced, mexican,import ect.

The FR will have  screws holding the block to the base plate with no string anchor holes.

A easy job to make one if you have the facilities.

GFS answered your question.

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Re: Possible FT bridge replacement??

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