What *IS* this?!?!?

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What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:05 pm





Challenger body.
2 knobs, which agrees with it being a Challenger. Headstock is the right shape.
But:
- not a Kahler-licensed Floyd Rose trem, like the Challengers have. In fact, if an '85 or later Westone has a pick-guard, it is either an '89 Challenger or an '88 Brit...but the Brits have either Bendmaster or Vintage 6-screw trems.
In fact, the closest thing I can find to this trem is on a 1988 Spectrum I. Those are Kahler trems. And I do know for a fact that in order to get around Floyd Rose's patent on a knife edge on the trem resting against an hourglass shape on the post, they put the knife edge on the screw head, and the hourglass on a socket on the trem body. You see it in the Spyder, too. Which this one has.
But this trem doesn't say Kahler anywhere on it, and Kahler was pretty good about stamping their stuff. (all the fine tuners are missing, btw)
- The '88s and earlier all had behind the nut string locks. From what I can tell, the '89s and later *all* had locking nuts.

I could assume this was a Yamaha w/ a Westone neck, or a one-off unique Challenger with different trem and nut...except this is the 2nd time I've seen one like this.

Sad



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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by corsair on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:28 am

Nope..... I got nothing! Cool

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Iceman on Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:55 pm

Ummm... HELLO!! It's a guitar...

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Westbone on Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:28 am

What do you call a deer with no eyes?
No idea.

What do you call a deer with no eyes and legs?
Still no idea.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by The Chad on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:12 am

Westbone wrote:What do you call a deer with no eyes?
No idea.

What do you call a deer with no eyes and legs?
Still no idea.

cheers However if there were a face-palm emoticon, I'd have used it instead. Laughing

Brain, this is the second you've seen like this?! Hmmm...

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:51 am

Yep, the 2nd I've seen.


...unless it is the same one, bought and then sold again at a different location. I can't remember where I saw the other one, but I think it was on Guitar Center rather than Music Go Round (where it is now).

In any case, the plot thickens: the serial number is 2062010.

Since it isn't a 1982 Westone, and they weren't making Westones in 1992 (they had switched to Alvarez), what are the chances this is one of the unconnected attempts to revive the Westone name? Does anyone have any info on those? I'm ignorant...

But then again, I don't know if they kept the same serial number system after they moved from Matsumoku to Japan. Anyone know?

Also, the manager said it has an EMG pickup...if it is an early Challenger, then the pickup isn't original. Or if the pickup is original, that makes it less likely to be an early Challenger.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by hobster on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:10 am

Matsumoku to Japan :?: :?: Wink Brain, i'm beginning to think you may know more than any of us about MIK Westones. You may be barkin up the wrong tree buddy. Very Happy

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:21 am

hobster wrote:Matsumoku to Japan :?: :?: Wink Brain, i'm beginning to think you may know more than any of us about MIK Westones. You may be barkin up the wrong tree buddy. Very Happy
er, "moved from Matsumoku to Korea" is what it should be. My apologies.

Does anyone know if they kept the same serial number system after the move?

Also, more information: Kahler says the trem is not theirs.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by The Chad on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:37 am

You're right, Kahler never used those ugly saddles. Strange set up there, for sure.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:38 pm

New information (and this is totally messing with my head):
There is a neckplate (which means it isn't a Challenger), and it not only has the Westone logo on it, it says it was made in Japan.

affraid

Shocked

bom

I'm going to have to do some more research, but it is seeming more and more like someone stuck a Westone neck on some other strat-like body.
Or there was a strat model put out in 1982 that doesn't appear in any of the catalogs that I've seen...

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by The Chad on Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:22 pm

Strat-esque body with Westone neck, that's what we got, eh?! I once saw a Pantera neck on a Dynasty. That was pretty cool looking too!

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Even assuming it is a Westone neck on a non-Westone strat body doesn't make complete sense.

The serial number starts w/ a 2. Westone made headstocks like that with that logo in just 1988 and 1989. In 1989, it was only on the Dan Armstrong custom models...so it is most likely a 1988 model. Really can't be a 1987.

But the neckplate says Made in Japan and has the Westone logo. Those were not available in 1988...not available pretty much after Feb of 1987, if I understand correctly.

But if it was made in Japan, and has the Westone "phoenix" symbol, then the 2 in the serial number would mean it had to be 1982. And in 1982, they weren't using the Westone "phoenix" symbol yet...not until 1983.

So apparently this guitar has a 1988 MIK Westone neck, a MIJ Matsumoku Westone neckplate, and a non-Westone body. That's a lot of effort.

I would almost think it could be a British variation with a heretofore-unseen trem...but the British pickguards have 11-holes. This has 10-holes.

Since the Challenger has 10 holes in its pickguard, and the exact same pickup & knob configuration, I might consider this a 1988 Westone Challenger prototype with an heretofore-unseen trem...but the hole near the 5-way switch doesn't appear to be in the right position, and a 1988 Westone Challenger prototype would *not* have been made in Japan.

This would lead me to conclude that it is a Westone neck on an unknown strat body...but 99% of the strat copies out there have 1 vol, 2 tone. This is 1 vol, 1 tone. Charvel's have 1v 1t, but have 9 holes. Yamaha's have 1v 1t, but have 9 or 11 holes.

The combination seems unusual enough that I think I will eventually find out what strat body it probably is.

I am beginning to believe that it was a strat copy done by another Japanese factory after they stopped production in Matsumoku, done for another brand but slapped the Westone name on it for a custom order, and could be considered an early Challenger prototype.

But I think I'm going to have to purchase it, just to really examine it.

...or am I overthinking this? bounce Laughing

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:59 pm

Interestingly, I found this discussion from the past on this very board:

http://westone.netboarder.com/t1020-westone-strat-copy-from-where-when-just-another-identifying-thread

I can't see the pictures right now, but I will after I return home. I'm thinking it may be a similar situation.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Westbone on Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:03 pm

The way you went into it, thought you'd bought it already.

The pickups on the old link are the same as some old Hondo's. Decent pups they are but they don't fit a regular Strat or Westone single.
That is a real crap ply body, just like some Hondos.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, the Bird logo didn't happen until late 1983. Don't think they'd put a logo on 'that' if they where turning out Concord's at the same time. Maybe it was added in the hope of a few $quid.

Probably a bitsa.

Don't think it's anything of a rarity. Either of them.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Iceman on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 pm

Any chance of a pic of that neckplate? I'm not sure that matters anyway as I understand they are fairly easy to remove, swap out, why... I even remembering seeing one for sale on ebay once I think...

Bitsa is my wager as well.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:07 pm

Iceman wrote:Any chance of a pic of that neckplate? I'm not sure that matters anyway as I understand they are fairly easy to remove, swap out, why... I even remembering seeing one for sale on ebay once I think...

I can see that as a possibility...but it doesn't make any kind of sense.

Then again, I guess I have to think that there are plenty of things that have been done to guitars that make no sense at all.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:15 pm

I'm taking it to Harmony Central, see if anyone there has any clue.

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Re: What *IS* this?!?!?

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