Pantera X350MA Restore

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Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:24 pm

I figured I would name this topic Restore since the last 350 I got has a questionable crack in the finish at the neck join. The only way to know for sure is to either apply pressure and see if there is a space there, or sand it down. I know Gibsons often get this headstock crack due to a lame design where they have a one piece mahagony neck. All the grain is in one direction and it's thinnest point is the neck join (which is why I have never owned a Gibson). The 350 has a 5 piece neck which is nicer looking and much stronger. But I have my doubts on this crack and want to know for sure.


My next project was to build a guitar from scratch, but since I am saving for a wedding I cannot afford to buy the couple of tools I need to get started.

So, I hate to say to the purists out there I need to keep a project going then this one has stepped into first place.

I am going to take down the finish on my 350MA (the one with the BMD bridge) down to bare wood. If I find a crack, I will repair it. If it is only a crack in the finish, then I think I will refinish it in a different color.

I understand the rarity of such guitar, and never plan on selling it, so I think I can sleep at night with this decision.

I will still have a stock 350MA, but think that this one may end up being really cool.

As Always I will document the progress and as some know, it takes me a long time to complete a project ( the 12 string took me 10 months?)



I imagine anyone would like to see a 350 sanded down and naked - what a great design, and I promise to make the finish on this like it came out of a pro shop. I undestand how cool, rare, and awesome this thing is, and will do my best to make this my best project yet.

Wish me luck folks.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:22 pm

Post a picture of your crack.

Seems alot of work for what?????

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by corsair on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:27 pm

Go hard, mate!! I, too, have an itch with the Urchin being over halfway finished but am heading in the direction of a twin neck....

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:14 am

Westbone wrote:Post a picture of your crack.

Seems alot of work for what?????

For self gratification I guess. I think I can make this old 350 look better than it currently looks. I think I can make it look very cool. I know it is blasphemous to the die hards, but I am not a die hard guy. I know it is a great guitar, and in my opinon I will will make it better.

I'm thinking green stain, maybe blue over the flame?

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:15 am

corsair wrote:Go hard, mate!! I, too, have an itch with the Urchin being over halfway finished but am heading in the direction of a twin neck....
You going to make a twin neck?

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by corsair on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:05 am

A big +1 to green stain, and yeah.... A 12/6.....

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:59 am

Westbone wrote:Post a picture of your crack.

this is not the time or the place for that kind of shenanigans!

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:44 am

Sgt. Vimes wrote:
Westbone wrote:Post a picture of your crack.

…THERE IS NEVER A time or A place for that kind of shenanigans!


Fixed!!

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:45 am

lol!

You've a one track mind and that's a dirt track.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:46 am

Black(or Charcoal) Burst out of the question then, Pat?

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:57 am

Iceman wrote:
Sgt. Vimes wrote:
Westbone wrote:Post a picture of your crack.

…THERE IS NEVER A time or A place for that kind of shenanigans!


Fixed!!


not even in college? wow

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:05 am

lol! lol!







No







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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by beavis on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Wow guys, off topic in so little time! Impressive.
Laughing

Sounds like a good idea to me, but I'm no purist. Looking forward to the pictures. I am sure this crack is going to open the way to a better understanding of things for me.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by grogg on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:29 pm

Sarcaster, I knew as soon as you got this you wouldnt be able to resist doing some stuff to it. Sorry, boringly back on topic.

My twopennorth, the shape of the guitar is very organic, whatever you do needs to complement that.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:32 pm

I for one, would love to see it stripped down naked, waxed and unstained Smile

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Barry on Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:53 pm

beavis wrote:Wow guys, off topic in so little time! Impressive...
Yeah, and for once it wasn't me who started it. clown

Black burst eh? Hmmm....

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:31 am

Iceman wrote:Black(or Charcoal) Burst out of the question then, Pat?

Haven't tried a burst before, so I think I'll hold off on making this the first

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:42 pm

corsair wrote:Go hard, mate!! I, too, have an itch with the Urchin being over halfway finished but am heading in the direction of a twin neck....

Building one???

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:45 pm

grogg wrote:Sarcaster, I knew as soon as you got this you wouldnt be able to resist doing some stuff to it. Sorry, boringly back on topic.

My twopennorth, the shape of the guitar is very organic, whatever you do needs to complement that.

you sound like someone who has known me awhile - I always take good and make it better or mess it up trying

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by hobster on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:59 am

I for one am looking forward to this project, i'd love to see one stripped down. Sounds like you have some cool ideas Sarc, i'm sure she'll turn out great.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by The Chad on Wed May 02, 2012 4:06 pm

Would look awesome with a super high gloss finish, if you made the grain really pop. Like Carvin does with their guitars. Simply stunning. It would be the nicest looking 350MA we'd ever seen. IF you didn't stain it weird colors Sarc... Laughing

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 9:09 pm

Sanding starts this saturday. We will see what this bird has underneath all the dings, scrapes and scratches. Hopefully nothing too bad to deal with once down to pure wood.

My one concern is the logo on the headstock - i'm not sure if that is inlaid, or if it is some film that is sooooo thin that i will sand it away. Anyone have any knowledge on the headstock logo inlay on the 350's?



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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Thu May 10, 2012 9:23 pm

Think your crazy. Why not just repair the damaged areas.
As for the logo, you'll find out when you get there, good luck

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Westbone wrote:Think your crazy. Why not just repair the damaged areas.
As for the logo, you'll find out when you get there, good luck

I know, I know - This guitar is beat up....It may have a crack, it may not. My Intent is to take a 25yr old guitar and make it look new. If it does have a crack _I'll fix it, if it is just a crack in the finish along the typical headstock crack line, then that will be gone too.

But at the end of the day the guitar will not look beat up, and may have a different hue. Any suggestions?


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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 10:09 pm

And for the Westone purists put there _ I will not do a thing to my other 350 Smile

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by gittarasaurus on Thu May 10, 2012 10:31 pm

sarcaster wrote:And for the Westone purists put there _ I will not do a thing to my other 350 Smile

purist - schmurist! ahhh stuff em!

i like my guitars original sometimes, and i like my guitars custom sometimes... but that doesn't matter.
because the fact is, it's your guitar and if even it you wanna go all Pete Townshend on it, that is up to you.

i say, don't worry 'bout them other folks.
there is nothing better than knowing what you want.
Go for it. cheers

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Fri May 11, 2012 3:02 am

[quote="sarcaster.
But at the end of the day the guitar will not look beat up, and may have a different hue. Any suggestions?

[/quote]

Paint it similar to gittarasaurus's Thunder IIA avatar.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by The Chad on Fri May 11, 2012 8:49 am

Westbone wrote:[quote="sarcaster.
But at the end of the day the guitar will not look beat up, and may have a different hue. Any suggestions?



"Paint it similar to gittarasaurus's Thunder IIA avatar" says Damian...

Do I sense... SARCASM afoot?! Suspect Smile

Sarc, Gittarasaurus is woefully wrong in this specific instance (sorry Mr. Saurus), you DO need to listen to we purists here! Laughing Think how purty a shiny new 350 would look, in all it's natural toned beauty. As if you stepped back through time and bought it right off the hooks in the store, brand spanking new. Doesn't it warm the heart?! :heart:

And maybe improve on the original a little with a high gloss sheen, like this gorgeous Carvin right here:






Now wouldn't that 350 look great with a high gloss like that?! Smooth as ice, like a jewel.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Fri May 11, 2012 9:04 am

They do have a high gloss finish, just not shaded like that beautiful Carvin.
The original finish is a tinted 2 pack lacquer.



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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by The Chad on Fri May 11, 2012 9:18 am

Nice! That is glossy... Cool

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri May 11, 2012 10:46 am

That is a real purty 350. And the Carvin is very nice too, but my 350 with the BMD doesn't have nearly that nice of a flame on it, and the back has no flame at all - The only 350 I have seen without the flame all around.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Fri May 11, 2012 12:06 pm

If it hasn't much flame your gonna have a job getting anymore from it. Unless you stain it and cut it back to bring out the maximum.
The original's have a amber type stain and tinted 2 pack lacquer.

Looking at those ebay photos the 'cracks' just look like impact lacquer cracks and not the actual guitar. If they are they're not at all bad but doubt it.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri May 11, 2012 8:39 pm

[quote="Westbone"]If it hasn't much flame your gonna have a job getting anymore from it. Unless you stain it and cut it back to bring out the maximum.
The original's have a amber type stain and tinted 2 pack lacquer.
quote]

I agree 100 percent. I think I am going to stain black and sand back the high points to get the best out of the flame on top. And then at some point choose some color - maybe blue, maybe green, maybe somthing else. Or maybe have totally natural looking - that's far off though.

What is 2 pack Laquer - I haven't heard of that before? My few refinish projects have been finished with polyU. I think laquer is thicker - but I hadn't worked with it before.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Fri May 11, 2012 11:35 pm

http://www.austinsevenfriends.com/paint.htm

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri May 11, 2012 11:56 pm

Westbone wrote:http://www.austinsevenfriends.com/paint.htm
Thanks eh - that is a cool link

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Sat May 12, 2012 10:51 pm

If you havn't much flame to start with you'll battle to get much of a result.
Like flogging a dead horse.

Personally I'd practise on a cheaper guitar first. IMHO. Smile

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Sun May 13, 2012 8:36 pm

Westbone wrote:If you havn't much flame to start with you'll battle to get much of a result.
Like flogging a dead horse.

Personally I'd practise on a cheaper guitar first. IMHO. Smile

I agree with the practice part. But at least for now the job is sanding it down.
I hope to have some pics up tomorrow of a totally naked 350.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Westbone on Sun May 13, 2012 9:53 pm

Go for it.. Smile The man who loves sanding down Pantera's. All the best.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Mon May 14, 2012 5:52 pm

Westbone wrote:Go for it.. Smile The man who loves sanding down Pantera's. All the best.


Ya know they really are no fun to sand - too many curves but each of them needed it for different reasons. The 390 needed a refinish because of the headstock snap, and the previous owner sanding the face of the guitar to try and smooth the textured DBK finish and get rid of the Pantera logo. The 300 - well, I wanted a 12 string Smile

And the 350 just looks old and beat up and I want it to be new again. I got the face sanded down today and it is looking good. I need more sand paper to continue, but so far it is looking nice. Nore more Dings or scratches on the face now!

I'll be curious to see how the neck goes - hopefully the cracks are just in the finish but if not should be easy to repair. The fret board looks pretty rough as well. I think it needs to be planed down - someone put a lot of miles on this guitar. And new frets will needed as well. I'm not confident enough to try that so I may get my guitar guy to do that. I took some pics, but don't have them on this PC - hopefully have some up soon

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by The Chad on Tue May 15, 2012 9:01 am

You're brave to do this Sarc, way to go. I want to find a project Dynasty to completely sand and add a quilt top on one day. I'll be calling on your experience for it!

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Tue May 15, 2012 9:14 am

The Chad wrote:You're brave to do this Sarc, way to go. I want to find a project Dynasty to completely sand and add a quilt top on one day. I'll be calling on your experience for it!

I can help with the sanding but I have not yet added a top - corsair seems to be doing a great job on his urchin so I would hit him up for that part.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Here is a couple of shots to show how much work needs to be done on the fretboard.
The frets are worn pretty good, there are slight divets into the fretboard, and it is REALLY dirty.



YUK




And here is the top after the first bit of sanding:


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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue May 15, 2012 2:55 pm

woo-eee you got some work to do on that board!
refret?
is that a rosewood board?

looking nice with her clothes off so far

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Tue May 15, 2012 3:29 pm

It's an Ebony board - but could use a little cleaning Smile

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Barry on Tue May 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Disgusting finger jam for sure. Dunno how anyone can leave an instrument like that.
Can't tell from the pix, but is there enough meat on the frets for a re-crown/dressing?? Lots easier than a re-fret eh?

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Tue May 15, 2012 4:12 pm

Barry wrote:Disgusting finger jam for sure. Dunno how anyone can leave an instrument like that.
Can't tell from the pix, but is there enough meat on the frets for a re-crown/dressing?? Lots easier than a re-fret eh?

There may be. but I am also concerned with the dips in the fretbaord from a lot of play. I think the only way to get the back is to plane the board. And if that is done then the frets will need to be taken off. The fretboard up to the first 5 frets almost look like they are slightly scalloped.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by The Chad on Wed May 16, 2012 8:26 am

sarcaster wrote:
Barry wrote:Disgusting finger jam for sure. Dunno how anyone can leave an instrument like that.
Can't tell from the pix, but is there enough meat on the frets for a re-crown/dressing?? Lots easier than a re-fret eh?

There may be. but I am also concerned with the dips in the fretbaord from a lot of play. I think the only way to get the back is to plane the board. And if that is done then the frets will need to be taken off. The fretboard up to the first 5 frets almost look like they are slightly scalloped.

My Vandenberg ebony fretboard is ever so slightly scalloped, came that way from factory, and I love it. You can still chord just fine, and it makes bending a lot easier when your fingertip doesn't hit the wood so much. This might especially help on the first five frets. If it won't look too crazy, you may consider keeping it that way. You see when you clean her up good.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:55 pm

So I went to get the majority of the sanding done, and believe it or not, I did not have anymore sanding pads for my sander. I did have some sheets of paper, so I started on the headstock by hand.

As I was afraid of, I confirmed there is a crack in the headstock that goes down the neck about 2 inches. It is not a bad crack - I have to give a bit of pressure to see it seperate, but when the strings are on and pulling in the opposite direction it will work fine for the moment. So I will need a syringe and to cover as much as I can in there and then clamp it down.

It should work without issue and since I am refinishing it anyway, I don't think it would be noticeable unless you are right on up it.

The other thing I learned is that the Westone logo is not an inlay as I had hoped, it sanded away with just a few brushes of the sand paper. So I will have to make a new logo for it. I may not get the MOP look to it - I'll probably repro it in black. Should look good with the black hardware and the color I'm choosing for the finish.



I'm going to take this one slow since I want it to look new once done.

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:16 pm



I'm keeping a clamp on it until I get it glued

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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:17 pm


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Re: Pantera X350MA Restore

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