Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:19 am

TVill25 wrote:Your wood blocks made me and my filler blocks look like woodworking hacks. Oh wait, I am a woodworking hack. Excellent progress

Being a welder, wood is not my usual medium of creation. Smile


It takes time to get just the right fit, but at the end of the day, it's going to be painted so as long as it is nice and smooth where the new stuff meets the old, then it should all look fine.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:42 pm

Changed my mind on the wood for the neck - it's gonna be mahagony. Should be here soon, and I think I will do a 3 piece neck, with potentially a bit on either side of the headstock to make the design work.

I'm going to use the original neck to hopefully make a decent template to start with, make the headstock as close as I can from the pics i got.

I'll probably keep the original scale, but not sure of the fretboard radius. No need to do a compound radius for a 12 string, so I am thinking of 12" perhaps.

I have a few projects stacked, so slow progress on this one sorry. But I really can;t wait to get this one done.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:24 pm

Ok, the MDF template outline is done. I may change the very top a bit as I think it looks more like a Vantage than what the Westone 12 looks like.

The nut was 1 5/8th but I changed it to 1 3/4 which will require some very slight precise sanding to the neck pocket - no more than 1 mil at the deepest part to sand. So before I paint the body, I will make the neck, and make sure it fits and is alligned correctly.

I also think I may change my mind and go back to maple - still not sure. and may install some graphite rods for stability so I can retain the same neck shape.

Here's some pics eh






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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by jim on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:34 am

I like it's shape!. As for woods used: Did you consider the weight differences since the head might become heavier wit 6 tuners added! It can be tiresome if your necks dives down every time you release it or, while playing need to hold it up. I'm in no way experienced but just try to imagine. Read this on ~ Cederela Odorata which seems to be a light variant of Mahogony known by it's English name as Spanish Cedar. (I'm a total noob) Seems to be often used for Flamenco acoustic guitar necks. Found an article here (old thread): http://www.guitarsalon.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9556.html
I don't know how stiff and stable it is for it will have to take a lot of pull. Anyway 'weight' might be worth investigating when deciding on type of wood for the neck. Fretboard might be more of influence on tone?

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:01 am

Yes I assume there will be more weight up top. At least there may be a little help with the balance since I added wood to fill the trem cavity, but not enough to balance it out I'm sure. Hoping to get my new band saw this weekend and cut out the template, and maybe cut the neckblank to shape.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:16 pm

So started to shape up the MDF template to cut out the neck. Made sure the neck pocket is good, but still have to shape up from the 12th fret up to the top of the neck, but couldn't help posting a pic to show that this is gonna work - I'm diggin it.


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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:27 pm

Ok, I failed on the first attempt for a template for the neck - it's not as easy as I thought to trace a neck and make it work. So my second attempt has worked better , although maybe not noticable in a pic.





Here is the 2nd version - I still may tweak the tip of the headstock as it still looks "too Vantage" to me, but fits the neck pocket perfect and is straight, where the first version was not so true. It really isn;t easy.

I also shamelessly included the templates for my first build from scratch (yes the neck looks offset a bit but I rushed the pic - it's really 2 templates that a laid down in a rush Smile )





Hard to show that the template is ever so slightly wider on each side so this guitar will have a 1 3/4 nut - and really just wanted to show the difference in headstocks.

I'm now committed to a 12' radius fretboard (ebony) on this one, which should show up tomorrow. I know compound radious is the way to go, but for a 12 string I would find no advantage for a compound board. Not like I will be bending notes past the 12 fret or anything. So Ebony board will be here tomorrow but I still need to buy a Jointer before I can make a 3 piece neck - ugh. Not cheap to do this stuff eh.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:22 am

Nice implementation of skills, guts and technique, cant wait to see the finished article, great work so far Mr Caster

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by corsair on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:43 pm

This lad has more guts than a freezing works, eh; liking this!!

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:25 pm

Thanks folks - although I have to wait for next paycheck for a jointer to continue. I have a friend with a planer that I intend to ask to use, but I have learned that buying the blanks doesn;t mean they are "ready" to use. so a bit longer for an update to this one.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:01 pm



A 3 piece neck it shall be. The middle piece is from a different blank than the outer ones. Hopefully I will have a jointer this weekend, but may have to order one. Once I have that, then I can get these glued up, then plane it, route the truss channel, , make a scarf joint cut, glue the scarf joint, make the truss access, trace the template, rough cut, clean the edges, install the truss rod, glue the fretboard, trim the fretboard, shape the neck, drill the tuner holes, install the frets ugh - I think this is a lot of work eh

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:35 pm

Jointer ordered - will be here the weekend after this one - can't wait

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by jim on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:54 pm

sarcaster wrote:Jointer ordered - will be here the weekend after this one - can't wait

After this one you will have to build a double neckie lol!

Because it's your hobby! clown

No, seriously, awesome project, very inspiring to see it progress with pictures and all!

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:13 am

jim wrote:
sarcaster wrote:Jointer ordered - will be here the weekend after this one - can't wait

After this one you will have to build a double neckie lol!

Because it's your hobby! clown

No, seriously, awesome project, very inspiring to see it progress with pictures and all!



A doubleneck is on this list, but I've got a few others to build from scratch before I get to one of those.

That one is cool - is one neck fretless?

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by jim on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:56 am

sarcaster wrote:


A doubleneck is on this list, but I've got a few others to build from scratch before I get to one of those.

That one is cool - is one neck fretless?

Nah, don't put it on the list. What you aim at in your projects is much more serious and it's a always a lot of fun to see you post updates on it! Instant curiosity guaranteed.
I've never seen much advantages in multiple necks on a guitar anyway, let alone a Bass (heavy) unless one wants to show off. Looks like a homejob done. And, yeah one neck is probably made fretless. Could have been a photoshopped one though. Digged the pic up from an old post once. I find there is a sense of humor to it! Cool

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by corsair on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:00 am

I'm going to build a double, actually.... I quite fancy doing a copy of Mustaines' Dean VMNT twin neck and I saw a kit for one on the interwebs a while ago...


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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:52 pm

Mother F$cker I am pissed. Got my Jointer today. It has granite infeed and outfeed boards, and one of them was cracked during shipping. So it is useless. I called support and asked if they could just send the replacement broken feed, and they wanted me to buy another unit and after the first unit is returned I would get a refund for the first unit. On the phone for 4 hrs trying to make a reasonable solution which ended up in me saying FU sir, I'll buy from somewhere else. So yet another delay, where as I really expected to make some progress this weekend. I'm pissed

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by jim on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:17 am

That really sucks major man! I imagine if you had needed it for a business project you could have sued them! And still you are even as polite as not to mention the name of the company. 4 hours on the phone... Evil or Very Mad
What a waste...

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Barry on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:00 am

I feel your pain.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:28 pm

New Jointer ariving tomorrow - hopefully get to work with it over the weekend. Once I test it out and make sure it works, then I can finally joint the neck pieces and get them glued - then I am on my way! Pix to follow

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:00 pm

Oo - also getting the truss rod, 2 carbon fiber rods to hold the neck up as well - gonna be nice

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:52 pm


Glueded up and clamped - a little bright but that it 3 pieces.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:55 pm

Kinda boring but here is the neck blank after unclamping. I need to run it through the planer to get a nice flat surface and then I'll make a cut for the scarf joint - I'm thinking 10 degrees will be plenty. And look at that nice Alder it is sitting on for my Strat build. Good stuff eh


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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:57 pm

After the scarf joint is glued and I know exactly where to mark the nut, then I will route out the truss rod channel and the carbon fiber rods.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by corsair on Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:39 am

Coming along, bud; good to watch!! One of the Matsumoku blokes is building a U-100 from scratch.... I think you're both clinically mad! Very Happy

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Barry on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:53 am

Copy that!

But it is fun to watch. What a Face

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a little progress

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:13 pm

So here is the 3 piece all glued up and planed flat. The dark pencil line is where I need to start the scarf joint cut.





Measuring the angle for the joint to 10 degrees. This should be plenty of angle so I will not need a string tree on the headstock.



And that's the cut line. My problem now is cutting it. My Miter saw only has a 10" blade so it cannot do it in one cut. My bandsaw is not the widest blade so I'm worried that the cut will not be perfectly straight even if I create a 80 degree angle jig and run against a straight fence, but it's the only thing I can think of to make the cut. If the cut isn't perfect, I'll need to plane both pieces before glueing up. The more the face of it is planed, the closer the angle moves to the nut and I only have a little room to mess with - like 1/8th inch before the nut line needs to move back and in turn change the scale of the neck. Iv'e sketched out a kind of jig that I hope will work with the bandsaw - we shall see.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by The Chad on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:03 am

You are a brave man Sarc!

Have you consulted a luthier about the neck angle? Couldn't hurt.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:21 am

The Chad wrote:You are a brave man Sarc!

Have you consulted a luthier about the neck angle? Couldn't hurt.
Most seem to use table saws with a blade that is big enough, but I do not have a table saw. Some use a backsaw or a Japanese hand saw, but would hate to mess it up using a hand saw. I may look into renting a table saw so I can make a clean cut if it is cheap enough. I really would like to have this cut done on Saturday so I can make some good progress on Sunday.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by mortarman120gang11c on Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:13 pm

Thanks so much for letting us follow your progress. This gives all of us non talented wood worker types a chance to see the good stuff we wish we could do without making a mess. great stuff thanks

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:14 pm

mortarman120gang11c wrote:Thanks so much for letting us follow your progress. This gives all of us non talented wood worker types a chance to see the good stuff we wish we could do without making a mess. great stuff thanks

I am also a non talented wood worker - I'm learning as I go. This (along with the strat neck I'm in the middle of) are the first I've ever tried to make Smile

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by jim on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:33 am

Man, that woodgrain looks lovely and very promising! Can't wait to see it finished, lacquered!
Glad you got the Jointer so fast after all that trouble you had to go through ordering the first one.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:01 pm

So I figured if I take some off of the width of the neck I can fit this cut under the band saw. It came out very ugly. but... i think there is enough wood to make it work. Next time I make a scarf joint I will get a table saw. Now the width I took off still allows my template to work, it just got reaaaaal close.
It's not easy to glue an angle on a joint like this but here is my attempt



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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:11 pm

Wow - although ugly, a vew passes on the Jointer and it looks pretty good. The joint is good but the face of the headstock still needs a bit of work as you see in the second picture.



The dark pencil line is the pint of no return. If i have to sand back to that then I cannot keep the scale as planned. so While there is some sanding, planing to do, I think I have lots of room to make this work.



The joint looks good - my feet... not so much - but it is Florida - I can wear Flipflops year rounds eh

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Barry on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:55 pm

Looking dangerously close to being a neck!

Ah, life in the sub-tropics.






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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:00 pm

Barry wrote:Looking dangerously close to being a neck!

Ah, life in the sub-tropics.






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It's getting close Barry, but where do you get those Mexicanos players - thats the challenge eh?

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by gittarasaurus on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:09 am

okay, i'm not a wood worker so please excuse my question if it seems dumb. is there a particular reason why you arranged the pieces that way?

i'm just looking at some other necks i have with scarf joints. they have the headstock piece glued on differently. the headstock piece is glued onto the face of the scarf joint cut on the neck.
the face of the scarf joint cut on the headstock piece is under the fretboard.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by westcoaster on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:16 am

I think Sarcs solution will result in a stronger joint. When strung up the glued faces will be in compression whereas the other way the joint would be subjected to tension. I know that a properly glued joint should be as strong as the surrounding wood but glue - good in compression, not nearly as good in tension.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by IanO on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:07 am

I think that manufacturers joint that way as it keeps a lot of the tension along the direction of the headstock grain and in the "slip" plane of the joint which in turn is given strength by the fingerboard glued on top of them both.

Not sure if this is official but seems the most logical to me. I would imagine that Sarc's joint will be fine, but a weak joint will allow the headstock to pull away from the back of the neck.

Methinks

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:27 am

gittarasaurus wrote:okay, i'm not a wood worker so please excuse my question if it seems dumb. is there a particular reason why you arranged the pieces that way?

i'm just looking at some other necks i have with scarf joints. they have the headstock piece glued on differently. the headstock piece is glued onto the face of the scarf joint cut on the neck.
the face of the scarf joint cut on the headstock piece is under the fretboard.

Yes there are 2 popular methods and after doing som research I found that the one problem with the joint under the fretboard is that there is a possibility of buzzing when playing on the first few frets if it isn't absolutely perfect. This being my first time doing this I wanted to avoid that possibility Smile

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm

Ready to start measuring the truss arnd carbon rods


The Dremmel Trio works good for this. Like my homemade fence? I bothed strat neck and my test piece for cutting a scarf on the band saw

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:34 pm

Routed the outside of the neck to match the template, rods are in. And the neck fits in the pocket pretty good. Once the carbon rods are dry then I will cut the fretboard and glue that on. Maybe tomorrow it will reall start looking like a neck.


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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by corsair on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:08 pm

Mate, that is looking good!!

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:01 pm

Thanks eh -can't wait to start shaping it - then it really starts looking like a neck

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:22 pm

thanks for detailing this build sarc, totally fascinating. looking great so far!

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:34 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:thanks for detailing this build sarc, totally fascinating. looking great so far!

Thanks for following it - it's been a lot of work, but I'm learning a lot and it is fun. I've bought more tools in the last few months where I could have bought guitars, but it's worth it as I plan to continue with the hobby. The real test will be fretting - I will test on a cheap neck or two from some cheapies I have laying around, but just the cost of fretting tools is scary, let alone installing them.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:40 pm

compared to the highly detailed work you have done with your projects so far, you'll find fretting a walk in the park, if I can do it.........

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:compared to the highly detailed work you have done with your projects so far, you'll find fretting a walk in the park, if I can do it.........

I just haven't tried before - so I need to do it on something else before this one. I'd like to do stainless steel, but everything I read says it ruins the cutters. I'm having no luck in finding good nipper type cutters for stainless steel. Open for any suggestions eh

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:40 pm


Ebony fretboard is now attached. I did not do the slotting for the frets - I bought the board pre-slotted which I think was a smart idea. Not too shabby eh?

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by grogg on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:48 pm

Sarc, looking fab, shabby - no.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:30 am



So only about an hour and I have the rough shape of the neck. lots of fine tuning around the heel and headstock to do.

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Re: Rabin Spectrum 12 string replica

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