Tele Wiring Problem

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Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:40 pm

I just cannot understand this having built countless telecasters.

I recently picked up a nice relic Mexican Lake Placid Blue body and decided to build myself a Tele as a keeper.

I always use really hot bridge pickups 10.5k ohms and out of the guitar, this one measures 10.55, but when wire up it drops top 7.25k ohms.

Also the neck pickup is 6.1k ohms out of the guitar but drops to 5k ohms when wired.

I am taking my reading directly from the soldered tabs on the switch, so switch, pots and output should have no effect.

Its driving me crazy as I have never experienced this before.

I have already resoldered the pickup earths but it makes no difference.

Any ideas?

Hoax Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Barry on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:55 pm

A resistor in the wrong place (or wrong value) can suck up yer volume, but I can't think of what would make the actual output reading drop either.
Almost sounds like a coil tap going on eh??

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:03 pm

Thanks Barry

No resistors in the circuit, except pots I suppose, but I am taking my live readings from the tabs on the switch and my earth from the bridge, so it really should be equivalent to direct readings from the pickups.

I will probably have to revisit the earth situation.

I am just a dumbass cause I can't figure this one.

Hoax

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Try another switch, might be shorting out.

That is a strange one.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:40 pm

Thanks Damian

I have tried 3 switches, but as I am taking my readings from the switch tabs, it aint even in the equation. I really think it must be an earth rather than a live problem.

Hoax

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:59 pm

In which case swap one of the pickups wires around.

Earth/live--live/earth.

I like problems, let us know the outcome Graham.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by gittarasaurus on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:00 pm

hoax wrote:
I am taking my reading directly from the soldered tabs on the switch, so switch, pots and output should have no effect.

does your reading change depending on the position of the switch? or position of volume and/or tone knobs?

and need i state the obvious??? You OK?

pictures please

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:23 pm

OK Gittar

I have kinda been waiting for your input. As I am taking the live source directly from the switch tabs, it matters not a jot what the switch selector position is?

In terms of the earth though, my thinking now is to try it all over the place to see if it makes any difference.

I will try a few more things tomorrow and report back.

As I say, I have done a whole load of teles (60 plus) in the last three years and have never had this problem.

Hoax

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by gittarasaurus on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:56 pm

hoax wrote:
As I am taking the live source directly from the switch tabs, it matters not a jot what the switch selector position is?
Hoax

the current flow will go the path of least resistance.
if there is a path to ground that is of lower resistance than the pickup coil, then the meter will read through that pathway.
it depends on what might be connected when the switch is engaged, whether your reading will change.

check to make sure the ground is not wired in a loop, but more a "line" or a "star" shape.

what sort of conductors are you using? single conductor or a shielded cable? you could check to be sure there are no faults in the cable itself.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Probably something simple and stupid.

Just start from scratch.

It's only one of the most simple guitars to wire.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:27 pm

You guys are right. In terms of wiring simplicity it is as simple as it gets, but when you have done so many in the same way with the same results, it is puzzling when this happens, particularly when this is one I plan to keep.

Actually, the finished product sounds fine, but when I take into consideration the pickups I have used, I know that there is a bit more "edge" to be obtained, and I also know the dry readings of the pickups, so my per is comletely plexed.

Hoax :?:

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by grogg on Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:52 pm

This is one of the enigma effects, in this case caused by over reliance on a multimeter.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Barry on Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:46 pm

Is grogg waxing all testicle again? Suspect

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:50 am

OK

I have taken various readings from the switch tabs while moving the switch selector.

I can only get 10.55k ohms from the bridge pickup when it is not engaged ie when the pickup selector is fully foward and selecting the neck pickup.

When I switch to engaging the bridge pickup impedance drops to about 7.5k ohms.

Same thing happens with neck pickup - When it is disengaged by the switch, it measures well over 6k ohms but when engaged, it drops to just under 5k ohms.

I have tried switch cleaner to no avail, switch is not wired back to front.

Help!!

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:58 am

I have just done the same exercise on another of my teles and there is only a marginal drop in impedance through the switch when the pickup is engaged certainly not 20 - 25%.

I reckon now that I need to try yet another switch.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:00 pm

Westbone wrote:In which case swap one of the pickups wires around.

Earth/live--live/earth.

I like problems, let us know the outcome Graham.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:44 pm

Westbone wrote:
Westbone wrote:In which case swap one of the pickups wires around.

Earth/live--live/earth.

I like problems, let us know the outcome Graham.


Damian

I actually do that wire switch a lot to give me out of phase when both pickups are selected. I haven't done it on this one. It does not change individual pickup output so I don't think it will have any effect.


I find it pretty hard to believe that I have 3 switches which function properly but rob so much output from signal. The only difference in this guitar over the 60 plus teles I have built is that this one has copper shielding to the cavities, but I cannot think that this would make any difference.

Hoax

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:46 pm

dissconect the copper. You don't need all that crap neither, just looks good.

Have you tried the capacitor?

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:53 pm

I have two caps in it. A treble bleed and a tone cap. I think that I am going to take your first advice and start from scratch!!

Bollards!!

Hoax Sad

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:02 pm

That should take at least 4 hours...clown.

Best thing to do Graham, a process of elimination.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Still scratching my head over this one...and no further ahead I'm afraid. But I suspect the reference to earth/ground may be the clue here.

I've seen some wacky things happen because of poor or absent grounding in the signal chain. Gonna turn out to be summit simple in the end. Wacky Cyclops

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by hoax on Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Result!!

Resoldered everything - did it work - No! Sad

Tried switch number 4 (had to strip it from another guitar) - did it work -No!! Evil or Very Mad

Removed treble bleed - did it work - No!!! Mad

Changed Volume Pot - did it work - Yes !!!! Laughing

Used second hand volume pot as a replacement and now have full output but only marginal control of volume, so all I have to do now is put in a new volume pot and I am sorted.

Sometimes stupidity when allied with it good friend, dogged determination will prevail against the combined forces of frustration and its evil companion ass bad fortune.

The moral of the story is that the humble switch is one of the good guys but the volume pot is a hideous, spiteful bastard.

Thanks for all your help !!

Hoax :bball:

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:52 pm

excellent news! just a not of caution here......I advise not buying the pots from Warman Guitars....its a long shot I know but I've had to replace 2 out of 3 of his pots which died after soldering earths to the body.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:47 pm

Buy a high wattage soldering iron.

Saves burning the components out.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:18 pm

40watt iron is sufficient, never had a problem using other pots

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:00 pm

Only use a 40 watt plus for the earth's on a pot or switch.

15 for the tangs.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:25 pm

nonsense, 40 is fine all round, always has been, always will

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:48 pm

hoax wrote:...The moral of the story is that the humble switch is one of the good guys but the volume pot is a hideous, spiteful bastard.
Yes it is! Glad you got it sorted. Wink

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:09 am

Frustrating eh! but sorted.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:28 am

Sgt. Vimes wrote:nonsense, 40 is fine all round, always has been, always will

Not going into an in depth debate about heat disbursement.Any electrical components worst enemy.

As your already an expert at 'frying' pots by your own admission.

Just that I've been using this method for over 35 years and never 'fried' a pot

The large iron is 80 watts and solders pots instantly with only local heat to the point I wish to solder.

The small one is 16 watt and is used for the tangs and small switches.

Just my choice of tools. Which I don't refer to as nonsense. Neither is a 40 watt iron but it just makes things a wee bit harder. In my opinion.



AND IF ALL ELSE FAILS.


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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:14 pm

2 fried pots out of about 100 tells me its not the iron but the particular brand of pot, which was my original point!
Yes your point stands but the issue here is the cheap Chinese pots Warman uses..... Surely?

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Barry on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:30 pm

Absolutely hate those teensy weensy itsy bitsy li'l pots!
Rubbish. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:36 am

Those little pots are crap and fiddly.

You want to see the size of the pots on Warwick basses. Tiny hi- fi quality stuff. Little square things.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:40 am

Sgt. Vimes wrote:2 fried pots out of about 100 tells me its not the iron but the particular brand of pot, which was my original point!
Yes your point stands but the issue here is the cheap Chinese pots Warman uses..... Surely?

100 pots! whose been a busy boy then. Why buy crap? 2% failure not so bad.

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:03 pm

100 pots....most went on synths...mostly Korg Poly800 mods I used to do.
I bought the warman crappy pots along with the pickups i bought ....saved postage/time. never again

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Re: Tele Wiring Problem

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