Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by colt933 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:18 pm

I suggest that trying to do it all with one guitar is not the way to go. I have tried it many times - I wanted what you want.

In the end, it's just easier to do it with 2-3 different guitars - for me.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Westbone on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:50 pm

Brain Fertilizer wrote:
Westbourne wrote:What does your guitar maker think?

If I give him a wiring diagram, he'll do it for me. He puts more of his thought into the guitar design and construction than the pickup configuration.

Yeah, but he's gotta make room for all this. Accommodate all these switches.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:20 pm

Westbone wrote:
Brain Fertilizer wrote:

If I give him a wiring diagram, he'll do it for me. He puts more of his thought into the guitar design and construction than the pickup configuration.

Yeah, but he's gotta make room for all this. Accommodate all these switches.

It shouldn't be a problem, but that's worth remembering.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Westbone on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:26 pm

So your going h/s/h ?

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:28 pm

H/S/S.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Westbone on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:48 pm

At what stage is the construction at?

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by IanO on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Just for clarity, The upper miniswitch is a 3 way, Parrallel HB/original S/C/ series HB.

Surely a miniswitch could be added to bypass straight to the BR + NK coils sound overiding the 5way (or other Pup switch) position?

Gittarasaurus?

The old "3 way for each pickup" would surely be easiest for mixing Pups/sounds........ but not the easiest for use in action

If I was going custom I would drop in a pair of P-rails and a middle s/c, Strat, LP, thunder 1 all in one!

Ian

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:40 pm

Westbone wrote:At what stage is the construction at?
Not started yet, but will be started within a week.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:39 pm

not just for little kids...
first act custom shop guitar

nice semi-hollow body, controls are volume/volume/tone (no switch)
these humbuckers kick butt too

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:06 pm

Here's what I think I want:

Bridge humbucker
Middle single coil
Neck P-90

5-way Blade Switch:
1: Bridge series
2: Bridge parallel
3: Bridge tapped to single coil
4: Bridge single coil + neck
5: Neck

2-way mini-toggle:
Middle single coil on/off

Gibson 3-way toggle:
up: bypass for bridge parallel only
middle: no bypass
down: bypass for neck P-90 only

Gitarrasaurus (and others),
Is this feasible and rational?

Which combinations would be hum-cancelling?

Would it end up with any horrible, weak, or tinny sounds?

Any suggestions for modifications from this?

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:29 pm

can you explain a little bit of what you mean when you say 'bypass'.
do you mean to override all other settings(vol,tone,switches) and put the chosen pup directly to the output jack?

looks like if you add the middle pup to pos 3, 4, 5 you would get some noise cancelling, and the humbucker will take care of it in pos 1, 2.

doesn't appear that any positions will give weak or diminished output.


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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:42 pm

Yep, by bypass I mean I want override ALL other settings and put the chosen pup directly to the output jack.

I have it on two guitars (stock on the Cort Garage2 Matthias Jabs signature, aftermarket on my Yamaha RGX 1212S). It is pretty cool, works well for when you want to pump up the output for a solo section, or a hard bridge in a softer song.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:43 pm

Can you write me up a wiring diagram for this?

I'll buy you a beer the next (first) time we meet...

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:59 pm

i'll doodle some and see what i can figure out. probably be later tonite or tomorrow before i can work it up.

on wednesdays i'm a volunteer sponsor at the elementary school garden, i teach a group of fourth and fifth grade students about gardening and related topics. today we are starting seeds for the summer garden. yeeeehaa! so i'll be busy with that until the end of the school day. then homework with my kid and all that routine.

i might ask some more questions along the way...

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:05 pm

here's one already..... controls?
are you going to use master volume/ master tone

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Iceman on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:12 pm

gittarasaurus wrote:i'll doodle some and see what i can figure out. probably be later tonite or tomorrow before i can work it up.

on wednesdays i'm a volunteer sponsor at the elementary school garden, i teach a group of fourth and fifth grade students about gardening and related topics. today we are starting seeds for the summer garden. yeeeehaa! so i'll be busy with that until the end of the school day. then homework with my kid and all that routine.

i might ask some more questions along the way...

6 inches of new snow in the past 4 days and I still got my RoMas workin'...


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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:23 pm

No rush.

1V, 1T.

I'm not much of a reduced tone guy. I could almost get away with no T at all, except there are some times where I want to roll off the tone slightly to reduce brittleness when mic'd.

But most of the time I do tone adjustments on the amp.

What I'm getting at is that I don't know how to use more than one Tone knob effectively, so why have more than one?

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:11 pm

still a couple things to work on a bit more...
i have the 5-way switch connections figured out, just trying to figure how to accomplish all the bypass operations.

you mentioned the bypass should be a gibson 3-way type (normally that would be a SPDT, 3-pos, on/on/on) - * do you simply mean you want to see a 3 position switch with a large bat handle on it?
switches are available with multiple sets of contacts, but the selection of handle types may be more limited for the more complex switches.

looking at the bypass switching - * do you want to prohibit the middle pickup from working when a bypass position is selected?

because the humbucker must be caused to become a parallel connection when the bypass is engaged, (overriding the position of the other switches), more contacts are needed than a single SPDT to do that with one throw of one switch, and even more if you want to prohibit the middle pickup.
it is additionally more complex because when the same switch is thrown to the other end, you are looking for a different pickup to come on, but to cause similar exclusions.

it would not be difficult to simply bypass the vol/tone, but with the extra default actions required when changing to bypass, more contacts are needed.


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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Okay, no need for an actual Gibson 3-way, I did just mean a 3 position switch with a large bat handle. The 3-way mini-switches usually take more effort and care to get to the middle position. But I can go with a 3-way mini-switch if that's necessary.

Since the bypass is so complicated to restrict just to the specific pickup, then just make it a V/T bypass. So in that case, it can just be a 2-way on/off.

That should simplify things, right?

Thanks for going to the effort for me.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:25 pm

some people like to do crossword puzzles....

i'm a wire nut, guitar geek. i find it fun, interesting, challenging, to develop alternative switching concepts and new wiring designs.

geek

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:53 pm

So what do you think of this one?

Clever?

Useful?

Silly?

Unnecessary?

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by IanO on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:34 am

Might it be useful to have a miniswitch for each pickup sending either through or past the V/T circuit. You could then send them indvidually?

Just thinking out loud

Ian

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:19 am

Just had another thought.

What about this?

Same pickups (bridge HB, middle single coil, neck P-90).

5-way strat blade switch
3 2-way mini-toggles.

5-way:
1: Bridge only series
2: Bridge only parallel
3: Bridge only north single coil
4: Bridge only south single coil
5: Bridge off

mini-toggle 1: on/off middle single coil
mini-toggle 2: on/off neck single coil
mini-toggle 3: bypass V/T

Would that be more complicated or less complicated?

I threw in the "north single coil/south single coil" for positions 3 and 4 of the 5-way because I'm not sure what else to do with it. I'm open to suggestions for what to do with Position 4 if there is no real difference which coil is cut and position 3 is the single coil cut position.

The point is, it might be cool to have the ability to combine the neck P-90 with the different HB combinations. It would sound different to have a HB series + P-90 vs a HB parallel + P-90 or HB single coil + P-90, right?

But if it just complicates things, then never mind.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:28 pm

i don't think there will be a significant change in tone when choosing one coil or the other on a split humbucker, unless there is a major difference between the two coils. i think you could call that, a distinction without a difference.

here's a couple ideas;
have you seen the Freeway Switch that stew-mac sells? looks just like a typical 3-way gibson style switch, but does much more

skip down to the 4th drawing, labeled H/H/H with twin vol/tone. ignore the vol/tone wiring for now.
you can use this switch schematic to do much of what you want.
pos1,2,3, gives you a 3-way on/on/on for neck and bridge
pos4,5,6 adds the middle pup to all three positions

now if you add in a mini switch for the bridge humbucker like this, you can have all those options in each one of the bridge-pup-on settings from the Freeway switch

you could then add in a vol/tone bypass switch if you wanted to, and you are only up to 3 switches total; selector switch, bridge connections, bypass

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:46 pm

I like it.
I'm a little scared that it might be difficult to find the right position at a gig...but I'm willing to take that risk.

Since the diagrams don't have exactly what I want, can you draw up a diagram for this?

1T, 1V

1: Bridge only series
2: Bridge only parallel
3: Bridge only single coil (coil closest to bridge)
4: Bridge series + neck
5: Bridge parallel + neck
6: Bridge single coil + neck

mini-switch 1: on/off middle single coil
mini-switch 2: bypass T/V

That would do it, perfectly.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:21 pm

i'll see what i can doodle out of it...

i've been trying to figure some different uses for the Freeway switch than what they have drawn up, so this is a good trial run.

i think you will be pleased with the action on the freeway switch. the contacts for soldering are a bit delicate, but the switch bat feels solid, and the positions notch in place well.

i actually have one on hand for a project guitar i occasionally work on. it is nowhere near needing the switch installed, so if you want to handle one and see if you think it feels good enough to use on your guitar, a couple bucks shipping each way is much less than the purchase price($21 +shipping) of a switch you don't want to use.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:24 pm

No need, but thanks for the offer.

Aside from the fact that your description gives me confidence it will work, the switch fits what I want to do so well, I would make it work even if it did have problems notching in place.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:29 pm

it seems like the freeway switch is not really compatible with the series/parallel/single setup.

so thinking about the combinations you listed, in combination with how i would use a guitar with those options, i came up with this setup:

3-way switch for neck and bridge pups
volume knob, tone knob
below the 2 knobs, 2 mini's
under vol knob is the mini for middle pup on/off
under tone knob is the humbucker selector - series/parallel/single

you could use a third mini switch for bypass, but i think it may start to look like too many switches. since you mentioned you don't use the tone control much, you could put a push/pull on the tone knob for volume/tone bypass. that way you won't disturb the set volume level when you switch to bypass and back. i would have the bypass at the push in position and knob control on the pull out position. that way, to get the boost for a solo, you just pop the knob down real quick, and play. the pull out to return to volume control maybe wouldn't need to be so speedy.


to me this provides a fairly easy setup to use.
* you can visually discern the pickup settings,
* you can get all the different choices,
* you isolate each function to an individual switch as opposed to stacking a complex arrangement into a single control mechanism

>in this setup, the primary pickup control is the 3-way
>then you have a mini to add the middle to the 3-way setting.
>you can change the humbucker setting without affecting any other pickup setting

i think this setup makes changing the tone of the output a smooth and predictable progression, because you change only one parameter with each motion. you can arrange the controls so the functions are fairly obvious and easy to manage.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:27 pm

That sounds perfect.

Thanks!

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by gittarasaurus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:38 pm

see if this drawing makes any sense. this is the most simplified schematic i could make.
it seems pretty cool, 14 pickup settings, plus V/T bypass...
the only pickup selection you don't get is middle only

i can send you a pdf to print if you want it.
the actual wiring and connection points may look a little different (soldering multiple wires to a mini switch tab is not easy, it may not be convenient to route the pickup wires directly to the 3-way switch, etc.) sort of depends on the location of the components.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:10 am

Wow, that looks cool, and I do actually understand it.

Since I can't seem to enlarge it, it would be useful if you could send a .pdf to deathtoallspammers@yahoo.com (not my actual email address)

...Maybe this will catch on. It can be known as the Alexander configuration, or the brainfertilizer setup.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by IanO on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:42 pm

Hi Brain,

Whilst browsing you tube, I found this about the Framus Panthera. The electronics sound like that which you lust after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOR1lNLvsE

Ian

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by Brainfertilizer on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:51 pm

That is pretty cool.

No series/parallel, but then I don't have the blend volume in what I want.

Still, it is clear that the common configurations don't always make the best use of the possible sounds, huh?

I think the Westone H/S/H (on the Dynasty, Dimension IV, and Spectrum LX) switching is about the most flexible with the simplest controls, for the most usable sounds.

That's where I got the idea for a middle single coil on/off switch.

I would have made it a push/pull knob except for the excellent suggestion that min-switches are easier to see when gigging.

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

Post by IanO on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:55 pm

I must confess that the framus desig seems very illogically laid out....would like the direct switch where the master vol is and the master vol nearest the Pups with the blend vol between the vol and tone. Couldn't deal with both switches so close together! But hey if they were giving it away...........

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Re: Request for Wiring Intent Discussion and Wiring Chart

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