Meanwhile, back at the shop...

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Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:22 pm

Had a free hand today for abit of government work rather than clocking company time. Got hit with another 8" of snow yesterday afternoon through the overnight and my wife hates driving in it so I packed up a template to take in and finally tackle some much needed bits for.
You will take note Barry that no cutting of the java is taking place here, that sort of thing just is not tolerated by the crowd at the job...

Sarge had the clamps but those pesky wear plates are commonly MIA too often...

5 castoffs of 1095 spring steel clamped up and checked flat...


Ready for popping next. The blue & white sparks are a good indicator of proper amperage..


To be continued...


Last edited by Iceman on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:54 pm

2 cups worth of CAD tapped out with Espirit and the C spits out the NC for the cutting floor. FANUC language for those interested...

Into one of GeorgFischer's Vintage Funboxes and we are nearly there...

Just in case the program code didn't fully spill the beans the machine control should clear things up nicely...

As a 330F is a submersible machine I was unable to snap a shot of the payoff. I had some company parts in a 310 frying as a thank-you to the owner inreturn for the machine time, which tallies about $85 an hour @ time & material, so I took a pic of the process there instead as an illustration ...

All cut and accounted for. The leftover scrap plates with enough room for 15 more...


One more post to go...

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:14 pm

20 minutes of programming + 5 minutes of setup + 38 minutes of erosion = 15 o' these Bad Girls...


And in the final analysis Robert really is your Mother's Brother...


Even got home early enough to properly toast another lovely April afternoon in Minnesota ...


Cheers!!

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by corsair on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:49 am

I did mine with a hacksaw, drill and a file. I feel so low tech.

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:46 am

I go about it the same at home John, no need to hang a long face now... What a Face That reminds me of a joke, actually....

John Kerry walks into his favourite neighborhood pub the afternoon of November 3rd, 2004. The barkeep looks up after taking a go in his game of cribbage and exclaims, "Afternoon John... why the long face"?

Roll on Floor Laff


Last edited by Iceman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:32 am

I think this is the point when we ask for a tumbleweed smiley...Smile

great job on the machines Ice, are they just the spacer plates or can they be used as the clamps too?


Last edited by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : tyop)

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Barry on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:36 am



Your whim is my command.

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by jim on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:02 am

Impressed by your engineering skills Steve!
Cool! Cool

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:16 pm

Haha thanks Barry

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Westbone on Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:41 pm

Knock out a few Prestige/Rainbow tail bars Ice.


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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:04 pm

Nice work eh!

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:11 pm

Those are just the wear plates Sergeant. Even at only about 1mm thick a high-speed steel drill would just sputter about, 1095 at full temper runs near 68 Rockwell which is mighty hard indeed. It will take 100 years for a guitar string to wear though that backing plate.

Wire-Cutting the 3mm thick material for the clamps would be no more effort really... as long as it can conduct electricity, EDM will machine it no matter the material strength. It is not as cost effective as building a die to stamp them out as the ones you now have were made. The initial costs are in the building of the die itself and the outlay needs to be recouped in the subsequent demand (years of, hopefully) for parts, a hard lesson that David learned in the end unfortunately.

Damian, if I could convince the owner that there was gold in them thar' hills by machining Swiftlocks, we'd already be flooding the market with them. It would take a Mazak or Hass VMC all of about 20 minutes to turn one out.

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:25 pm

Think ya can make me a Kahler 2300?

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:59 pm

I've looked into LOTS of ideas on parts for vintage Japanese guitar hardware (go figure)... BMD/BFT string claws, trem blocks, et. al. ... and the equations necessary to sell it on even a medium scale production run has yet to be solved, Sarc.

Reverse-engineering and machining the bits or even a full assembly like a 2300 is never the issue provided I have a specimen in hand as a template. It can never progress past just doing it for personal use until the demand exceeds the initial costs to tip the balance in that direction.

If you and Damian really, REALLY want those bits then yeah, I can make them. The cost of doing so would probably not excite you so much even given that my time and labor costs would be waived as a professional courtesy to you.

And of course Damian would need to send out a Prestige for me to verify a first article against. Wouldn't want to find out from 3000+ miles away it didn't fit now, would we... Naughty (heh, heh, heh)

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:55 pm

So the answers is no eh?

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Westbone on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:00 am

Do those ( or one of them) machines scan an object and then are able to reproduce replicas?

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:13 pm

Damian first.

The technology you are asking about we do not use in our shop...presently. the owner has put thought towards moving down that path however. A link to one metrology company that sells laser inferometry equipment is here...

http://www.faro.com/en-us

We do have a pair of Zeiss CMMs which can serve the same function in taking an object and describing it via probe touch to create a 3-Dimensional CAD model that can then be machined after it has been coded by a CAM software program, we utilize SolidWorks, MasterCam and Espirit to compile such language that a CNC machining center (mill, lathe, laser or EDM) would execute to fashion the part. Similar in all respects to traditional machining methods, save the computerized control of the machine, stock material (steel, aluminum, brass, etc.) is removed from the billet of material and what is left is the part. Simply enough as anyone who has used a drill press will understand.

3-D Printing works in exactly the opposite way where the CAD model is generated by the repetitive application (comply spraying, electron adhesion, so on) of a material which builds layer by layer until the part is completed. Sometimes, if made of plastic or resin, the part is ready for use... other times if the material is not currently printable the resultant piece is then cast into a part, or becomes a model a CMM or laser can scan to be machined, once again as described above. This new machining process is in it's infancy really, but is rendering the current hot debate in gun control here in the States somewhat moot already..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZRUpmMIQy8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I most definitely can reverse engineer and machine you an exact replica of a Kahler 2300 no sweat.


Last edited by Iceman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:33 pm

Sarc second. (Sorry for the run on above, I will clean it up once I can get to a PC as my phone's text editor cannot get to that last line above given the constraints of the forums posting field size it seems. Anyway...)

I most definitely can reverse engineer and machine you an exact replica of a Kahler 2300 no sweat. What I am saying is by the time I could find a chunk of time to dedicate myself to doing so and you add in the cost of materials along with the associated outside processes necessary (plating, finishing) you would find yourself far ahead in savings of time and $$ to make it worth contacting Kahler to see if the currently offered Flat Mount system can replace it...

https://www.kahlerusa.com/flat-mount-tremolos-bridges-6-string

Waiting an original one out on ebay would most likely be quicker and less costly even.

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:44 pm

I know eh - kinda kidding there Smile

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Westbone on Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:48 am

Interesting debate Ice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yeh6K7vPCOU&nofeather=True

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

Post by Iceman on Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:25 pm

Gotcha Sarc... it would be a rewarding challenge just to see it done, but time has been in short supply lately for me to tinker.

It is a fairly vigorous debate right now on these AR-15s Damian and old Alex can smell an opportunity to pinch some of the limelight with the best of them. He is abit to close to the fringe for me to put very much stock in though.

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Re: Meanwhile, back at the shop...

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