Session 2 string misalignment!

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Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by north-west-one on Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:47 am

Finally sourced a Session 2 which has been at the top of my wish list for a long time. 
The guitar arrived in great shape and looks and plays fantastic. 
On setting it up, tuning, intonation etc noticed that the strings do not run true from the tail piece to the bridge which after a short tome while playing actually makes the bridge move downwards pulling the guitar out of tune and edging the treble E string close to the edge of he fret board. I have readjusted this a few times now but it continues to slip down. It looks on closer inspection that the tail piece has either been attached off true or it has become distorted. 
I have considered removing the strings and trying to gently bend the tail piece in to the correct position. I have read that these tail pieces are rather fragile and would like your collective opinions on this situation before attempting this.

Thanks in advance.

Fraser

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by hoax on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:11 am

Fraser

If the bridge is slipping, smear a little silicone sealer on the underside, let it cure and put it back on. It adds a bit of friction to stop the bridge moving.

Graham

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:55 am

Firstly I'd lap the feet of the bridge to the body.
Might have high spots which won't help.
Also I'd do this anyway.



A little double sided tape will also help hold it.

It sounds like it's askew though. Just reposition the tailpiece, easy enough... Neutral

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by grogg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:27 pm

Need close up pics. The silicone glue idea doesn't get to the root cause and bedding in the bridge will probably make it slide more.
Heres what mine looks like:-

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:30 pm

grogg wrote:and bedding in the bridge will probably make it slide more.

Rubbish, give me one good reason why?

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Barry on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:47 am

Double sided tape is all I do. No muss, no fuss, no slipping.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by north-west-one on Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:48 pm

Thanks for all the advice chaps. I went with the double sided tape option as it was a quick and risk free fix and its done the job.
I did try to gently bend the tail piece into the correct position but its made of springy metal which retains it original shape. 
It looks as though this has been slightly miss aligned from new. The base plate with the three fixing screws is positioned dead center so I guess its the wire and bar arrangement that's off center.
Once again thanks for a speedy response to my inquiry and all have a very merry Christmas and hangover free New Year.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by hoax on Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:28 pm

Just a quick thought Fraser. The bridge should probably sit at an angle with the bass side behind the treble side as it were. This would reduce the overall E to E distance and may overcome the problem if any still exists.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by north-west-one on Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:06 pm

Good thinking Graham but on trawling through as many photos of this guitar that I can find the bridge looks parallel to the end of the fret board and the pickups so I am still of the opinion that the tail piece is some how off plumb! Incidentally the bridge on mine looks different to the others I have seen in that each saddle is adjustable with a threaded roller for intonation adjustment. Others looked fixed. Its an 84 model. 
Just been playing it again and everything is rock solid so apart from the string angle from the tail piece to the bridge looking slightly off all is well.
Jazz on bro's.................

Fraser

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by corsair on Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:10 pm

I play jazz on a Spectrum SP1012.... with a judicious use of EQ, sounds just like a big box guitar! Laughing  Cool

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Barry on Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:54 am

corsair wrote:I play jazz on a Spectrum SP1012...
 Yay!

Hey, if Canadian jazz guitarist Ed Bickert can play jazz on a Telecaster anything's possible eh?

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by grogg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:18 am

Westbone wrote:
grogg wrote:and bedding in the bridge will probably make it slide more.

Rubbish, give me one good reason why?
Should have read might rather than probably, I agree with you that bedding in the bridge is a must for tonal quality.
I really don't like the idea of putting something between the bridge and the body eg tape for the same reason, unless of course theres no other cure.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by grogg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:27 am

north-west-one wrote:Good thinking Graham but on trawling through as many photos of this guitar that I can find the bridge looks parallel to the end of the fret board and the pickups so I am still of the opinion that the tail piece is some how off plumb! Incidentally the bridge on mine looks different to the others I have seen in that each saddle is adjustable with a threaded roller for intonation adjustment. Others looked fixed. Its an 84 model. 
Just been playing it again and everything is rock solid so apart from the string angle from the tail piece to the bridge looking slightly off all is well.
Jazz on bro's.................

Fraser

Mine is more or less parallel and each saddle has its own intonation adjustment.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:10 pm

Bet your roller bridge is 52mm string  spacing?

The original is 50mm.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by grogg on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:00 pm

Heres the string spacing and bridge:-

This guitar was setup by a luthier in London, all Ive done is buy and play. As can be seen there is a slight lengthening of string on the low E side of the bridge so its not quite square to the pup which is in line with what Hoax suggested.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by gittarasaurus on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:18 pm

i think the slight angle to the bridge is for proper intonation, rather than string spacing.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by hoax on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:29 pm

It is Mike, but it will slightly affect string spacing. I have to say that I am with Grogg on the use of double sided tape as the stuff I have come across is glue in a foam sandwich. You are effectively placing a mild damper under your bridge.

As with most things, we all have our own opinions and we use whichever fix suits us.

Hoax

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:07 pm

Setting the intonation on the bridge will not effect your string spacing, come on now!

What you on about .000001mm... affraid

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by hoax on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:21 pm

Westbone wrote:Setting the intonation on the bridge will not effect your string spacing, come on now!

What you on about .000001mm... affraid

Slanting your bridge will - Remember that old Pythagoras guy.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:02 pm

Yeah, like make it parallel to the neck.. Laughing

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by hoax on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:05 pm

Westbone wrote:Yeah, like make it parallel to the neck.. Laughing

Exactly - When it is parallel to the neck, your string spacing is approximately zero, give or take a gnats chuff!!

Hoax Very Happy

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:25 pm

Anyway to get back on a serious note.

Having a slightly tilted bridge will make no difference to your string spacing not even a gnats cock in real terms.

A 52mm string spaced bridge with a slightly offset tailpiece will exaggerate any problems.

That's if it is 52mm??? north-west-one.

Here's a slightly askew tailpiece. It does not, on this particular guitar, make any difference. The bridge spacing is 50mm




Last edited by Westbone on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : photos)

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by north-west-one on Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:52 am

Cant find anything to measure in gnats chuffs or gnats cocks! but using the baw hair scale of measurement (which incidentally is the equivalent to mm) this bridge measures 52 baw hairs from E to E string.
Its interesting to see that Westbone's Session 2 tail piece is also off center just like mine. Could this be a deliberate offset for some reason. It still influences the bridge to migrate downwards during play which inturn throws the tuning out and places the treble E string too close to the fret board edge. 
I guess I will just stick with the double sided tape which does the job and doesn't seem to affect the tone noticeably.

Fraser

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by westcoaster on Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:05 am

I remember convincing a Polish Civil Engineer years ago that the bawhair was a legitimate Scottish unit of measurement.  Oh how we laughed at that site meeting.

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by Westbone on Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:38 am

Can always buy a replacement... affraid 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281224209838?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

Post by grogg on Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:15 pm

Now that did make me go  What a Face  pale  No

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Re: Session 2 string misalignment!

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