Dynasty questions

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Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:31 pm

Greetings all,

I've got a few questions about my 1984 Dynasty, and I'm pretty sure I'm in the right place to get the answers.

First off, here she is:







...and the serial number and store tag:








Getting started with a setup, I've had to fix a back bow in the neck, which the previous owner (I'm assuming) had tried to fix by adjusting the bridge saddle heights, so they're pretty out of whack across the entire neck radius.

So question #1 is, what is the neck radius on the Dynasty? 
I found the neck radius template pdf posted in another thread, so if no one knows off hand, that should prove handy!


Question #2: I've never seen a Dynasty with this style of tremolo. All of the Dynasty models I've seen, have the locking nut and fine tuners.
Are those a later addition to the tremolo after 1984, or was it an option and mine just didn't come so equipped?












Question #3 : One of the tuners is chipped, or speckled,(I haven't decided which it is). Is this common? 
I'm thinking of replacing them with a set that has the Westone "W" on the gear cover. Looks nicer I think.  Thumb Up 










Question #4 : I need to know if this bridge looks "correct". I'm trying to find the right words to describe what I mean. It looks like it's sticking out of the body a little too much. Almost as though it's meant to act as a floating tremolo, but I've never seen a non locking tremolo like this that's a floater.











And lastly, Question #5 : What are the factory specs for string & pickup heights? I know this one is a bit subjective, but I'd like to get it back to factory first, and then go to comfort zone from there.




Sorry for the question bombardment, and thanks for your time in looking and any help you can offer!


Cheers!

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Westbone on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:51 pm

That's an Electra Dynasty not a Westone model.
Although very similar.

Here.
http://www.rivercityamps.com/electra/

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:55 pm

Westbone wrote:That's an Electra Dynasty not a Westone model.

Could you elaborate on the differences?

 I've always kind of assumed they were the same company, much like Gibson/Epi, Jackson/Charvel, etc...

Would this be considered a cheap knockoff to the actual Westone model, or is it a name only thing?

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Westbone on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:57 pm

Check on here
http://www.westoneguitars.net/guitars/dynasty-xv2/

and the link I gave above

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:02 pm

Hmm, mine appears to be a weird hybird of the two.

 My volume & tone knobs, pickups, and pup rings look like the Westone and not the Electra's (at least by the two pictured on the first link), and the bridge is like neither one.

A bit shocked to see that mine was the final year for the Electra version. 
Aside from what I've noticed, there appears to be no real differences, so I'm thinking that the tech info for one would be compatible with the other.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Westbone on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:10 pm

Your bridge is a Bendmaster as used on Westone's.
Yes they are the same factory!

Set ups are a personal preference.
Factory set ups are a bit hit + miss anyway.

The old chestnut...'subject to change without notice' applies.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:22 pm

Well, thanks to your link above, I've discovered this gem:
http://www.rivercityamps.com/electraforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7492

 So I'm guessing that the 84 model Electra Dynasty suffered from parts bin scavenging before they canceled.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Westbone on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:26 pm

I'm sure the Dynasty guys(Chad being one) will be along to help.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Barry on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:11 pm

I'll let the Electra owners speak to the specifics of your model, but re; your question #4, that bridge is seriously out of whack!

A bit of a float is OK but that thing is approaching helicopter territory! And the bridge pickup is straining to find the strings. Everything needs to come down considerably. If it cannot then it would point to a neck issue.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:20 pm

I thought it all looked a bit too high. affraid 

The neck had such a horrible back bow to it that it all the strings hit on the 5th fret.
I've got it back to a nice relief now, but I didn't want to go lowering the bridge or until I knew for certain. I had not seen one like it before. It's such a weird mix of a trem styles.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by corsair on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:02 pm

No, it's not really; thats a Bendmaster Precision and I've got one or two here on various Westones. My Spectrum GT had one as does my Raider II and, to be fair, i've had no trouble with tuning issues on the Spectrum when they're used with restraint; they won't like being asked to fall off buildings or produce Dimebag-like squeals too often but they will do everything a standard trem bridge does with aplomb.

Thats a fine looking guitar you have there!

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Barry on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:58 am

shaneg wrote:...The neck had such a horrible back bow to it that it all the strings hit on the 5th fret.
I've got it back to a nice relief now...
There ya go. Glad to hear it.
Solid body Westies are tough and have been known to take a lot of abuse and still bounce back. You should be OK now.  Smile

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Chad on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:41 pm

Oh yeah, my '84 is exactly the same as yours.  I posted about it somewhere...  I'm a Dynasty guy. 

So what questions do you still need answered?  Spell them out and I'll answer. 

By the way, your guitar is totally stock.  And has a better action at the neck/body join that other Dynasty's made since then (by about 5mm, which is a lot).  If you want to tread about it, CLICK HERE!

Now get me those unanswered questions.  And please make them plain, I have ADHD.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Barry on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:24 pm

The Chad wrote:...I have ADHD.
I once tried to tune my ukelele that way.

'Couldn't find the bloody 'H'  clown

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:20 pm

The Chad wrote:Now get me those unanswered questions.  And please make them plain, I have ADHD.


 The most important question would be what should the bridge height be?
Should the back of my bridge be touching the body, or is what I've got now just an extreme of what it should be?




Once I have the bridge at, or close to where it should be, I can dial in the action and pickup heights from that.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by corsair on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Bridge height is entirely up to you; decide how you'd like the action and fiddle around with bridge height and pick up heights until you've got a solution that suits your playing style!

I have the base plate of any of my Bendmaster bridges sitting ever so slightly down at the back, (the strap pin end), and I do mean slightly; just off being parallel with the body.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Don on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:17 am

corsair wrote:Bridge height is entirely up to you; decide how you'd like the action and fiddle around with bridge height and pick up heights until you've got a solution that suits your playing style!

I have the base plate of any of my Bendmaster bridges  sitting ever so slightly down at the back, (the strap pin end), and I do mean slightly; just off being parallel with the body.

I am not a guitar tech and I'm definitely not knowledgeable about Westones so please take any of the following with that large pinch of salt. The way my first Spectrum GT (which has the same bridge) arrived (inherited from my late best friend) was with the bridge set at about a 30 degree angle up at the back. I adjusted it to lie parallel to the body and over a few weeks had about half a dozen strings go (two during gigs, not fun). I put it back the way I found it and I've not had a string go since. It's not just the one guitar either, I did the same with my other blue Spectrum GT with the same result (lots of broken strings before I put it back).

Of course I could have had a few ropey sets of strings and the timing was just co-incidental. Please also note that I don't actually use the tremolo so any considerations relating to the effectiveness of the tremolo, ease of use or staying in tune are moot.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by corsair on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:00 am

Where are the strings breaking, Don?? Could be a problem elsewhere as I've not broken any strings at all on my floating bridges....

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Don on Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:15 am

corsair wrote:Where are the strings breaking, Don?? Could be a problem elsewhere as I've not broken any strings at all on my floating bridges....

Right on the bridge saddle. Mostly A, D and G (I don't count top e breaks, that just happens Very Happy). So 3 different strings on two guitars so I don't think it's an issue with a single bridge saddle. Returning it to its original position has eliminated the problem for the last 3 months.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Chad on Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:51 am

The general rule of thumb is this, to make the bridge plate sit at about the same angle as the neck does.   Your neck should be about on plane with the body.  So make your bridge plate on plane (parallel) with the body.   So the back and front of the bridge plate will be the same height away from the body. 

As far as height goes, you'll want the action at the 12 the fret as low as possible without buzzing all over the place.  

Follow this, if you don't you'll be frustrated.

To do this, you'll first want a straight neck.  Follow these steps...

1. You'll be loosening the strings and that will cause the back of the bridge to clinch down on the guitar body, so insert paper towels or cardboard or whatever under the back of the bridge to hold it up in place so it won't scratch up the body.  Some guys stack up picks or playing cards under there to hold it in position until string tension is back on.
2. Loosen the strings, don't take them off though. 
3. Adjust the string saddles to match the neck radius.  Even getting it close helps.  Should be a slight arc, the middle saddles the highest and outside saddles the lowest.  The two middle saddles should have the screws about flush with the top of the saddles. 
4. Remove truss rod cover and loosen the truss rod till the neck looks straight as an arrow.  Use a long ruler to check for flat.  If it rocks, it's high in the middle.  Only move the truss rod about a 1/2 turn a day, using common sense.  If it seems really tight or won't budge, don't force it.  Should be fine though, I've never had a bad one.  If a 1/2 turn doesn't get her flat, let it sit a day and do it again tomorrow.  The wood may take a while to adjust to the new shape.  Loosening the truss rod nut will allow the neck to bow up.  Tightening it will cause it to go flat or back bow.
5. Once the neck is straight, re-tune the strings.  After tuned, you'll want about an 1/8th inch gap between the twelth fret and bottom of the low E string.  Maybe more, depends on how hard you bang the strings when you play.  So measure that, if it's above 1/8th inch, lower the bridge to until you have it.  If it's under 1/8th inch, raise the bridge.  That's how you know how high the bridge should be (generally).
6.  Now with the pinky of the right hand, press and hold the low E down at the 22 fret.  With the left hand, press and hold the same string at the 1st fret.  While holding these down, stretch your right thumb to the 12th fret and press the same string down at the 12th fret.  You should be able to press it down very slightly before it hits the fret, without pressing it down you should be enough room to slip a piece of paper under there.  If it can't move down, like if it's already touching the 12th fret without you pressing on it, then the neck is too straight (or back bowed) and you need a little bit of forward bow in the neck, which is called giving the guitar neck "relief".  So you'd want to loosen the truss rod more to cause that relief and then check it again.  

Pickup height is up to taste.  For rock and harder styles of music, I like it high to the stings, about an 1/8th inch from the strings.  Experiment however, you'll find the right spot.  

There are a few variables, this is a general procedure.  If you run into issues, let us know.  Youtube has a lot of this info also.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by Westbone on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:12 am

The neck should be at a slight angle back from the body as you hold it. If not shim it.

Look at any set neck guitar if unsure.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Chad on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:31 am

Damian's right on that (however in a lot of cases you won't need to, although it's ideal), as it will allow for optimal set up.  The idea of shimming may seem scary but it's real easy to do.  Set neck guitars have the neck angled down from the body.  There's a reason for that!  Neck tilt is good. 

Here's some info on this...
Not all of this info applies to you, but the shim part is pretty good.  Sure beats just sticking a pick in there.  Although that works, it doesn't bode well for long term as it can cause issue with the wood (common sense).

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by shaneg on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:16 pm

GREAT info!!  cheers 

Thanks! I'll give this a go, and report back when I've got her done.

I've also been trying to follow this fella's techniques for setups: 

https://www.youtube.com/user/davey4557

Seems like he knows what he's doing.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by The Chad on Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:01 am

Dave!  I love that guy.

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Re: Dynasty questions

Post by mortarman120gang11c on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:36 pm

I also have one of these Electra Westone Dynasty models so if you need and photos or info drop me a pm here or on the Electra forums or just give me a call. Arthur

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