Warped neck????

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Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 1:28 pm

Need a bit of help here guys please

Could you always tell if a neck is warped "Before" you start work on it...if the existing nut has been over cut and there is choking on the the lower frets of the bottom E, A and D ?

Many thanks in advance

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by The Chad on Fri May 02, 2014 1:33 pm

Always straighten a neck first.† If it won't straighten, especially if it's in a back bow, you'll need to amend it.†

Choking on the lower frets is a backbow issue.† Loosen the nut all the way, see how (or if) it relaxes.† If you see that the nut was heightened, like with a shim to make it taller, this is also an indicator of backbow which could not be straightened.† Let us know what it's doing Meadows, we'll help.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 1:46 pm

As soon as you fret a string the nut doesn't come into play.
Could be the truss rod, as Chad mentions, saddles or the nut if choking out on open strings.

What kind of guitar?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 1:53 pm

Hey Chad and Damian thanks for the speedy replies.

The guitar is my long awaited, spent over 90 days in US customs Italian Westone SG copy.

When it arrived I noticed the nut had been badly overcut and was choking only when fretted on the EAD strings upto about the fourth fret.

I got my luthier to look at it to get a quote for the work and after he replaced the original nut, filled in the gaps under some of the high E frets and removed the sharp edges he came back to me saying

After tidying up fretwork,filling holes of fretboard edges and repairing damage I have dicovered that the neck is warped.

This means it has no `drop off` at the end of the neck resulting in notes choking from around the fourth fret onwards on the hig e side.

The shop where I bought it from in the States says he should have spotted the warp before he started work on it.

Not sure what to think but as it stands this baby don't play good †Crying or Very sad

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 2:28 pm

Without actually looking at it, it's hard to say.
You might get away with a fret leveling job??
Remove all the frets and redo the fingerboard radius??
It's a difficult call without seeing it.

Agree with your guy in the States comments though.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 2:32 pm

Damian just to confirm and I know it's hard to comment without seeing the guitar but you reckon my luthier should have spotted the warp before starting any other work ?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 2:45 pm

Well it's certainly something you'd check first.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 2:50 pm

Ok, that totally makes sense. Will see what the seller comes back with and take it from there. So from my end the next step would be to take off the frets, straighten the board, refret and hopefully we are back in business. Many thanks

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 2:58 pm

Depending how bad it is you might get away with a fret leveling job.
Don't think you want to spend a fortune on it.

By the way that's an Italian made model.
There's a guy down in Wembley (Roberto) at Brandalini's or a name very similar. He's got a load of the old Eko stuff and tons more for Itlaian guitars. Was down there a week or so ago looking at some gear. I'll look it up and get back to you.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 3:00 pm

http://www.brandoniguitars.co.uk/

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 3:04 pm

You star, I will give him a call Monday and see if he can help, thanking you

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Fri May 02, 2014 3:11 pm

Tuesday, bank holiday...†Smile
If you happen to go down there on a Wednesday take cash as his wife won't be there. He can't work the card thingy.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Fri May 02, 2014 3:19 pm

Lol, yeah forgot, self employed..bank holiday..?????

I take on what you said about not spending too much but as it stands it's an expensive wall ornament, I would like to get this one up and running as the pickups sound great, really clean with plenty of definition.

Realise I now owe you quite a few beer tokens, cheers Damian

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by The Chad on Sat May 03, 2014 8:11 am

That luthier should have noticed that!† Don't use him again.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Sat May 03, 2014 12:07 pm

Thanks Chad, I think your right, his work to date has always been spot on but in this instance I think he rushed a bit and missed the obvious, especially given he knew the guitar's recent history and of it's time in customs.

I am tempted to ask if anyone here fancies having a go at sorting it and being paid at the going rate. I will see what the store comes back with first and take it from there.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Sat May 17, 2014 6:26 am

Any luck? what's the latest?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Sat May 17, 2014 3:13 pm

Hey Damian

Long story short, trashed my back a couple of weeks ago and have not worked since, have earned £40 in two weeks, not good and have not been able to drive down to Brandoni guitars.

The guitar shop is totally ignoring my emails and the boss is never there when I call !!!! ??? Really !!!

So as things stand I need to earn some cash and then I think I will either offer the guitar for sale on here first as a project or find a realistic budget to see if anyone fancies having a crack at getting this one back on the road. So far I have spent £365 on this Westie with the delivery and taxes and don't have a great deal to show for it at the moment.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Sat May 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Ouch!!

Sorry to hear about your back.

How bad is the neck? any photos?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Sat May 17, 2014 3:47 pm

I will take some shots tomorrow and put up a link.

It does not look really bad but I guess it was bad enough for my regular guy to stop work on it when he tried to sett it up. In reality and maybe sadly I just play the guitars, that's my thing and I have always accepted I need to buy someone else's experience and skills to keep my kit up to speed.

Back pending I will take it to another local luthier and get a second opinion early next week, that should give me a better idea.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Sun May 18, 2014 3:50 am

Here is the link to some photos of the Italian SG style, not the clearest in close up on my camera so not sure if the images of the neck relief will help??? I can try and get clearer images later today if not and please advise if the shot should be taken from a certain angle/position ?

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Meadows61/library/Italian%20Westone%20SG%20Style?sort=3&page=1

Many thanks as always †Very Happy

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Mon May 19, 2014 11:11 am

That nut he stuck in looks like a brick!! a bit square on the edges..†Mad

Like you say get a second opinion.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Barry on Mon May 19, 2014 11:30 am

Shame you're having all these troubles. Don\'t Know
Overall it's a nice looking guitar and I can see why you'd want to have her.

Unfortunately, I can't make out much of the problem from those pix of the neck. The body is in focus rather than the neck, which is the area of concern. I'd also prefer to see a lower angle sighting along the bottom of the strings in relation to the top of the fretboard. That would give us a better idea of up-bow/back-bow/warping etc.

The nut does look a tad *ahem* large.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Mon May 19, 2014 2:21 pm

Hey Barry hope your keeping well fella.

I am taking this baby to see a different luthier tomorrow for another opinion and have tried to get some better photos. Looking down from the nut the top E and B are on the low side and chocking starts around the 4th fret on the E all the way up. Not sure if that is the new nut or the neck. Tomorrow I am sure will bear fruit and insight †Shocked

Extra shots:

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Meadows61/library/Westone%20sg%20neck%20shots?sort=3&page=1

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Mon May 19, 2014 2:31 pm

That nuts cut all over the place.
The strings look quite high in the nut.

What happens if you raise the bridge a bit on the choking side?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Mon May 19, 2014 2:54 pm

Thank you Damian.....And the choking has stopped †Very Happy† The top e,b,g all feel high when playing closer to the nut but I guess that is the way the nut has been cut or not.

Just having a play and checking her out, just that lift on the bridge has made such a difference, feel a bit of a plonker to be honest but hopefully some attention to the nut should help.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Mon May 19, 2014 3:06 pm

Good, that nuts looks a piece of s**t. Don't use that shop again seems they don't know FA.

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by grogg on Mon May 19, 2014 5:11 pm

With Damian on this, from what the photos show the neck aint too bad. Fret level and properly prepared nut should do the trick.
Nice flowers.†Smile

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Mon May 19, 2014 5:33 pm

grogg wrote:With Damian on this, from what the photos show the neck aint too bad. Fret level and properly prepared nut should do the trick.

Nice flowers.†Smile
†Thank you, my confidence in a positive outcome for this old lady has been greatly restored this evening.

As to the flowers, yeah that's my day job and also where my nic came from when I was doing a lot of small holding work †Smile

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Barry on Mon May 19, 2014 11:41 pm

Just coming back to this thread a bit late today 'cuz I was out celebratin' me birfday wif some old friends, one of whom is actually older than me! †Shocked

Looks like the boyz have it all under control; that nut is nuts!

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Tue May 20, 2014 1:16 am

Hey Barry, Many happy " Molson" returns, hope you had a great day and a good catch up with the guys, here's to the potential of your new year to come, Cheers †Happy Birthday


Last edited by Meadows on Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : coffee)

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Tue May 20, 2014 3:25 am

Looking at the photos is the nut sticking out proud of the fingerboard on both sides?

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Tue May 20, 2014 3:37 am

Yes it is and more so on the low E side

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Barry on Tue May 20, 2014 10:12 am

Thanks Meadows!

Yup, that nut is nuts alright. Looks like it was an off the shelf generic part that was just dropped in with no adjustment. String spacing is likely too wide also. Very seldom have I replaced a nut that didn't need some degree of sanding or contouring.

Correct that and I believe must of the issues will resolve themselves OK

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Meadows on Tue May 20, 2014 10:26 am

Just got back from seeing Chris at CA Guitars just down the way from me

http://www.caguitarworks.co.uk/

Nice guy and he seems to know his stuff, no BS, no hard sell.

He put the guitar on the bench while I was there and made some truss rod adjustments and was constantly making checks etc

His comments were as follows:

The neck is twisted, too much relief on the treble side compared to the bass side.

Irrespective of the terrible nut, if the treble side is straightened up the bass side has too much upward bow causing fretting out on 3rd - 5th frets (humped)

There is also not enough fret wire there to compensate for this.

He advised finding a new neck and also mentioned as Damian had,† Brondoni of Wembley which he felt would be the most cost effective route forward, if they have something suitable.

He also indicated the neck pocket might require some vigilance as what appear to be lacquer cracks may run deeper.

Time for a coffee and a think

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Barry on Tue May 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Bummer. †Neutral

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Re: Warped neck????

Post by Westbone on Wed May 21, 2014 1:33 am

A strong coffee!

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