Back from the dead, T1a restoration

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Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:57 am

The weather is fine, the projects are none and the guitar funds aren't too bad, so here goes!








SO..the body and neck are in great physical shape, just a couple small dinks here n there, but...the finish is worn off in places under the (horrid) paint job so its a total refinish from bare wood jobbie, including the neck as it had been revarnished at some point.
The gain circuit functions ok, at least it seems to without strings and tapping the coils.

We all know the "light oak" original finish looks great, been there..where I havent been is

http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t339-thunder-i-a-restoration
or
http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t2334-westone-thunder-1a
or even

yeah that last one aint no Westone, but the colour is ace!

I can't decide, stain and clear or tinted nitro deal..I put it to the board and ask for suggestions (with photo evidence if poss)

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:36 pm

I saw this on the bay mate.....too much for me to attempt.

Imo, the grain is all important with some of these finishes....it might be an idea to totally strip it and see what ya got before deciding which way to go.
Love the green, but the grain really sets it off....if the grain ain't all that then maybe the one shown on your second link 'toffee burst' might be a better option...as that also looks really good.
May the force be with you on this one.  Cool

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:59 pm

Yep, my grain is a tad nondescript,  my first thought was strip and tru-oil,  that's what the neck is getting.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by corsair on Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:36 pm

As far as restorations go, this is a good one, eh; really just lots of sanding and finishing!! Oh, and making some covers... unless you're going to go with a packing tape motif?!  Laughing 
That see-through green is stunning; I really like that one! If the figuring is fit for purpose, the world is your oyster.... trans black or purple.... maybe even a graphic of some kind? The Angel of the North or the Millennium Bridge??
I like graphic finishes....

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:27 pm

Angel of the North?  Good lord no!  Gormley can kiss my arse No 
Nah graphics aren't really my cuppa,  trans black or purple could be good.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by corsair on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:33 pm

Ahhh, but you're a funny lot up there!! When we visited in 2010, the received wisdom was that the Angel polarised opinion like billy-o, and so it did, with the general feeling being that it was a blight on the landscape! However - and this is as a visitor who'll probably never see it again, sadly - I thought it was wonderful, even if Polly said it looked like a crashed Dornier!

Anyway, trans black is really cool...

http://www.edroman.com/customshop/color/transblack.htm

... and I likethe purple too...

http://www.paulreedsmith.org/1992-paul-reed-smith-ce-24-rare-purple-with-maple-board/

... like I said, the world is your oyster! Are you tempted to do something original? I know these days I certainly am...  Cool  Very Happy

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:51 am

A crashed Dornier! haha never made the connection before  Laughing 
I am thinking something original, at least something that wasn't factory, willembad's trans blue is just delightful but maybe my grain and my skillset isnt ready for that just yet, though nothing ventured nothing gained eh?
I will have to stick to aerosols as I have no compressor/gun setup....yet, anyone had experience with 2K aerosol?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:11 am

Sgt. Vimes wrote:...nothing ventured nothing grained eh?
There. Fixed.

Hey, I'd stay away from aerosols. Go with a wiping stain. Love that green, but I'm a sucker for trans black.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:15 am

hehe thanks  Very Happy 

The thing is...I already have a lovely green stain (spirit based) and a black one too...call me cheap but I'm looking at spending NO further monies on this if I can help it.
Tru oil on top of spirit based stain....will it smudge?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:35 am

Sgt. Vimes wrote:....will it smudge?
 Don't think it'll matter....you have seen its current condition?  Laughing 

Whatever you do will be an improvement....go for it mate, this is your moment to cast aside inhibitions and go with whatever you fancy.
If you have snotty green lying about then I say go green.

Worst that can happen is that you really f*** it up - and then you can part it out eh?  Wink ....see my plan?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:37 am

Ha! very cunning, as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:40 am

lol!  very good Blackadder

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:42 pm

Well Ive been ploughing through tons of pics of guitars and wood finishing and mostly drawing a blank, though one thought keeps resurfacing and that is the beautiful olive green of the Burns Marquee



leaving the trad maple center natural and no burst.
I will almost definately use a stain then clear/oil for ease and practicality, just finding an olive stain is tricky.

what think you lot?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:46 pm

Loving the green and if you can get some red and gold in there as well you may well have a buyer already lined up  Cool 

Link http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/tshamone/glassy2.jpg

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:49 pm

Lord have mercy!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:52 pm

I can sort of see that working on a thunder with the through neck, three distinct body sections????  Twisted Evil

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:53 pm

Haa, you might be on to something there!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:46 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:...just finding an olive stain is tricky. what think you lot?
I think all you would need to do is add a small amount of black to the green to darken it. Lots of experimentation needed to get what you want I suppose.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:58 pm

Hmm, i thought adding a little brown or orange, but google says a tiny spot of black and brown/or orange, so we both be right  Smile 

Is it common for a spirit based stain to smudge and move when a second coat hits it? I found it really difficult to stop that happening on the Urchin.
Is water based the way to go?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:02 pm

heh
OLIVE

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:22 pm





On Saturday I got all my gear together to start sanding this down, only to realise my sander died when stripping down the Raider a couple months back....so a quick jaunt down to the woefully understocked Homebase to get a little palm jobbie.
Apart from a few deep seeped stains the body is in great nick, the brasswork has had a first coat of clear too.
Had the first body sand shot in photoshop trying to come up with something cool, teal? aqua? pink??
too hard to decide, but I want to avoid browns as they've been done.
Definately going for an oil finish, the high gloss poly job is just going to be too expensive and time consuming, plus I have the oil here  Smile 


it looks like this has had 3 paint jobs over the years, black, blue and that last silver horror show, some was undercoated, some not.
I'm happy to leave the dark remnants in the grain there as it'll have a black wash and sandback before I colour it, I could keep sanding forever trying to get that out!.

so fellas, I want more colour ideas, black burst is interesting, but not sure how it will look with the maple separating the wings.

Purple maybe?

hell I don't know!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by corsair on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:58 pm

Wish I could help beyond suggesting trans black or trans purple, Sarge....  Cool 

I mean, I'm struggling with the finish for my project guitar far less offering anything valid for yours!! Laughing Laughing 

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:20 am

Looking good Sarg

You have probably already done this but this link to various wood stains might be of some help, good luck

Move the slider along to see more images

http://modthesims.info/d/480222

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:04 am

Choosing colours isn't meant to be this hard!, I mean, it's so permanent unless I want to end up with a wafer thin body. 
I love teal and turquoise guitars, but on this?  I 'unno. 
Si, cheers for the link, but been there already and the choices make my head hurt!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:34 am

Along the Teal line, with the thru neck

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41LAowLTtkL._SY300_.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/helloween06787/IMG_0249.jpg

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:02 am

At the risk of being obvious here, I think that the woods used in this guitar pretty much dictate the finishes that work.

The centre laminate of Maple and Walnut really needs to be "natural". A trans finish on it looks bloody awful IMHO. And if you cover it with a solid stain, well, what's the point of having that beautiful detail in the first place?

The Ash grain on the wings is amazing and needs either a natural or a trans finish. Now then, because the centre detail is a focal point and light in colour, it makes sense that the wings need to be darker for contrast. Uncle Mats got it right with his choices.

So, this eliminates lighter shades and suggests concentrating more on the primary colours. About the only ones not used on the Thunders AFAIK are Green, Blue and possibly Purple.

I personally love the blue on the Skylark's (rebranded Aria Pro II CS series). It shows off the grain beautifully and would get my vote here.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:37 am

I always had the thought that the maple center stays neutral,  although I did colour the very center narrow strip same as the wings on photoshop and it didn't look awful,  but in reality I think it would come out a different shade to the ash. 
I think tonight I'll hit it with black and see how it looks,  and go from there. 
Appreciate all your input guys, keep it coming, cheers

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:14 pm

Dunno if this has come up before, or lately, but it would be wise to use a wood sealer ahead of the stain. This will ensure that the grain absorbs the colour more evenly.
Otherwise you could end up with areas which are darker than others. Then yer back to sanding!  affraid

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:17 pm

Yarp,  I plan on using a grain filler paste mixed with black stain (have both these already) and then possibly sand sealer pre staining.  Cheers

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:11 pm

Slightly off topic and inspired by the stripped wood but how are the wing sections attached to each other and the body, is it purely glued or do they use biscuit joints or the like?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Glued as far as I can see.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:37 pm

So last night I mixed the black stain with the grain filler, and applied.




then sanded it back to wood and sprayed on the very last of my sand sealer, literally the last dregs, got about 99.9% coverage!



and the same for the headstock



the marks around the tuner holes are old paint seeped under the veneer, new tuners arrived today (cheers for the link damian!) and the washers cover some, not all the stains.

I don't think I'll give it a black stain as the stained filler seems to have done the required job.
so as it stands I'm debating wether to go green stain or aú natural, must admit I do like the look as it is, thoughts?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:00 pm

Natural would be wonderful...but kinda average.
Green though, would be.... bounce

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:35 pm

Been testing the green and some purple I made up on off cuts of ash, didn't like either so have reluctantly spent some pennies on
BLUE

updates as and when  Smile

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:34 pm

Why "reluctantly" Pete? Blue good!  What a Face 

It was my earlier pick. The Skylarks, et al, just look gorgeous.
Even my old Vantage resto came out rather nice, even without any black high lighting, just a sealer.
Water based stain with Tung oil finish:


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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:44 pm

Reluctantly because I'm a tight old git! 
Blue was also my first choice,  but I know I can't achieve the results of my earlier link with stain and oil. 
I did find my local homebase diy sells polyurethane clear in an aerosol which  is much cheaper than anything eBay can offer,  very tempting I must say.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:02 pm

Like this??
http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t339-thunder-i-a-restoration

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:07 pm

Aye that's the link I started with. 
Couldn't repost it as I was on my phone at the time.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:17 pm

Any decent car paint shop will mix you up a tinted lacquer, in a rattle can! for around a tenner.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:50 am

Yes but then I have the added pain of blending the middle clear stripes with the tinted wings,  I really don't want to tint that maple!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:59 am

Err! wait for the paint to dry!!

How do you think custom cars get done. Don't see blurred lines do you.

Mask off the centre maple, spray the wings to desired colour(with tinted lacquer) remove tape before fully dry. Let wings fully dry. Build up centre with clear to same as wings. Then spray whole guitar in clear. Flating as you go.

That's one way of doing it.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:40 am

Hats off though to all you guys that attempt this level of restoration...I have neither the skill or patience required to do anything other than basic maintenance  Cool

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:35 am

Been spraying bikes and cars for a good part of my life.

Guitars are a piece of p*ss.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:20 pm

Westbone wrote:Err! wait for the paint to dry!!

How do you think custom cars get done. Don't see blurred lines do you.

Mask off the centre maple, spray the wings to desired colour(with tinted lacquer) remove tape before fully dry. Let wings fully dry. Build up centre with clear to same as wings. Then spray whole guitar in clear. Flating as you go.

That's one way of doing it.
sorry, didn't see these posts.

Yes, thats exactly how I pictured doing it, and that's exactly why I didn't do it!
when I said blending the clear, I meant building up the clear to the same level...just as you said. I'm not there with my abilities yet so one step at a time...this is only my 3rd or 4th total refinish and the sprayed ones werent great,, but the oiled ones were MUCH better.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Catalyst wrote:Hats off though to all you guys that attempt this level of restoration...I have neither the skill or patience required to do anything other than basic maintenance  Cool
How do you know? have you tried?  Smile

pick up a piece of crap strat copy and go for your life!


Last edited by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:46 pm







Where was I?
Ok..sanded back the sanding-sealer and applied blue stain, sanded back again as I missed quite a few patches of sealer!
More blue, waited an hour then one more coat and that's what you see here.
Since these pics they've had 3 super thin coats of Tru-Oil which has obviously taken the blue to a vague green hue, almost the teal I was after...almost.
more pics tomorrow.

Is there any truly clear linseed based oils on the market like this Tru Oil?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Ooooh, this is gonna be gooooood!!  bounce

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GUITARS : http://legend.barryeames.com/guitars.html
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Barry
Hero, Legend, and all round good guy

Number of posts : 6128
Age : 71
Location : Port Weller, St. Catharines, Canada
Registration date : 2009-05-01

http://www.barryeames.com

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:13 am






Here after 3 or 4 extremely thin coats of oil, another couple of the same then wire wool and go again.

me be happy  Naughty

Sgt. Vimes
Financial supporter

Number of posts : 3111
Age : 45
Location : tyneside
Registration date : 2011-11-03

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:36 am






Is there any truly clear linseed based oils on the market like this Tru Oil?
Danish oil.

Looking very good... Smile

Westbone
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Number of posts : 4860
Location : Redbridge
Registration date : 2008-12-28

http://www.chruler.com/

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:53 am

Thanks!

All the danish oil I've seen up close has had a tint to it, plus is it right that danish takes a lot longer to dry than the blended oils like Tru etc?

Sgt. Vimes
Financial supporter

Number of posts : 3111
Age : 45
Location : tyneside
Registration date : 2011-11-03

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sponsored content Today at 6:09 pm


Sponsored content


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