Back from the dead, T1a restoration

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:34 am

Along the Teal line, with the thru neck

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41LAowLTtkL._SY300_.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/helloween06787/IMG_0249.jpg

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:02 am

At the risk of being obvious here, I think that the woods used in this guitar pretty much dictate the finishes that work.

The centre laminate of Maple and Walnut really needs to be "natural". A trans finish on it looks bloody awful IMHO. And if you cover it with a solid stain, well, what's the point of having that beautiful detail in the first place?

The Ash grain on the wings is amazing and needs either a natural or a trans finish. Now then, because the centre detail is a focal point and light in colour, it makes sense that the wings need to be darker for contrast. Uncle Mats got it right with his choices.

So, this eliminates lighter shades and suggests concentrating more on the primary colours. About the only ones not used on the Thunders AFAIK are Green, Blue and possibly Purple.

I personally love the blue on the Skylark's (rebranded Aria Pro II CS series). It shows off the grain beautifully and would get my vote here.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:37 am

I always had the thought that the maple center stays neutral,  although I did colour the very center narrow strip same as the wings on photoshop and it didn't look awful,  but in reality I think it would come out a different shade to the ash. 
I think tonight I'll hit it with black and see how it looks,  and go from there. 
Appreciate all your input guys, keep it coming, cheers

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:14 pm

Dunno if this has come up before, or lately, but it would be wise to use a wood sealer ahead of the stain. This will ensure that the grain absorbs the colour more evenly.
Otherwise you could end up with areas which are darker than others. Then yer back to sanding!  affraid

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:17 pm

Yarp,  I plan on using a grain filler paste mixed with black stain (have both these already) and then possibly sand sealer pre staining.  Cheers

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:11 pm

Slightly off topic and inspired by the stripped wood but how are the wing sections attached to each other and the body, is it purely glued or do they use biscuit joints or the like?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Glued as far as I can see.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:37 pm

So last night I mixed the black stain with the grain filler, and applied.




then sanded it back to wood and sprayed on the very last of my sand sealer, literally the last dregs, got about 99.9% coverage!



and the same for the headstock



the marks around the tuner holes are old paint seeped under the veneer, new tuners arrived today (cheers for the link damian!) and the washers cover some, not all the stains.

I don't think I'll give it a black stain as the stained filler seems to have done the required job.
so as it stands I'm debating wether to go green stain or aú natural, must admit I do like the look as it is, thoughts?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:00 pm

Natural would be wonderful...but kinda average.
Green though, would be.... bounce

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:35 pm

Been testing the green and some purple I made up on off cuts of ash, didn't like either so have reluctantly spent some pennies on
BLUE

updates as and when  Smile

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:34 pm

Why "reluctantly" Pete? Blue good!  What a Face 

It was my earlier pick. The Skylarks, et al, just look gorgeous.
Even my old Vantage resto came out rather nice, even without any black high lighting, just a sealer.
Water based stain with Tung oil finish:


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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:44 pm

Reluctantly because I'm a tight old git! 
Blue was also my first choice,  but I know I can't achieve the results of my earlier link with stain and oil. 
I did find my local homebase diy sells polyurethane clear in an aerosol which  is much cheaper than anything eBay can offer,  very tempting I must say.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:02 pm

Like this??
http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t339-thunder-i-a-restoration

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:07 pm

Aye that's the link I started with. 
Couldn't repost it as I was on my phone at the time.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:17 pm

Any decent car paint shop will mix you up a tinted lacquer, in a rattle can! for around a tenner.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:50 am

Yes but then I have the added pain of blending the middle clear stripes with the tinted wings,  I really don't want to tint that maple!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:59 am

Err! wait for the paint to dry!!

How do you think custom cars get done. Don't see blurred lines do you.

Mask off the centre maple, spray the wings to desired colour(with tinted lacquer) remove tape before fully dry. Let wings fully dry. Build up centre with clear to same as wings. Then spray whole guitar in clear. Flating as you go.

That's one way of doing it.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:40 am

Hats off though to all you guys that attempt this level of restoration...I have neither the skill or patience required to do anything other than basic maintenance  Cool

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:35 am

Been spraying bikes and cars for a good part of my life.

Guitars are a piece of p*ss.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:20 pm

Westbone wrote:Err! wait for the paint to dry!!

How do you think custom cars get done. Don't see blurred lines do you.

Mask off the centre maple, spray the wings to desired colour(with tinted lacquer) remove tape before fully dry. Let wings fully dry. Build up centre with clear to same as wings. Then spray whole guitar in clear. Flating as you go.

That's one way of doing it.
sorry, didn't see these posts.

Yes, thats exactly how I pictured doing it, and that's exactly why I didn't do it!
when I said blending the clear, I meant building up the clear to the same level...just as you said. I'm not there with my abilities yet so one step at a time...this is only my 3rd or 4th total refinish and the sprayed ones werent great,, but the oiled ones were MUCH better.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Catalyst wrote:Hats off though to all you guys that attempt this level of restoration...I have neither the skill or patience required to do anything other than basic maintenance  Cool
How do you know? have you tried?  Smile

pick up a piece of crap strat copy and go for your life!


Last edited by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:46 pm







Where was I?
Ok..sanded back the sanding-sealer and applied blue stain, sanded back again as I missed quite a few patches of sealer!
More blue, waited an hour then one more coat and that's what you see here.
Since these pics they've had 3 super thin coats of Tru-Oil which has obviously taken the blue to a vague green hue, almost the teal I was after...almost.
more pics tomorrow.

Is there any truly clear linseed based oils on the market like this Tru Oil?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Ooooh, this is gonna be gooooood!!  bounce

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:13 am






Here after 3 or 4 extremely thin coats of oil, another couple of the same then wire wool and go again.

me be happy  Naughty

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:36 am






Is there any truly clear linseed based oils on the market like this Tru Oil?
Danish oil.

Looking very good... Smile

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:53 am

Thanks!

All the danish oil I've seen up close has had a tint to it, plus is it right that danish takes a lot longer to dry than the blended oils like Tru etc?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:25 am

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blackfriar-Danish-Oil-Clear-Satin-Finish-500ml-/170721417162?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item27bfca17ca

Doesn't take long to dry. Depends how much you put on.

Clear lacquer would have looked good on that.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:28 am

Thanks mate!

I put on miniscule coats, I learned that lesson early doors!
Clear would have looked good, but this tinted TRU looks superb in the flesh!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:45 am

It is a nice colour.

Reminds me of those Skylark models.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:00 pm

looking very good sarge and does indeed look like those Skylarks...also very similar to my CS350 as well  Cool 

I thought the grain originally looked a bit 'meh' but that blue colour really makes the most of it.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:03 pm

Thanks Cat, the black grain filler makes a huge difference in making it stand out.

I honestly can't believe how good this is looking, I've done 3 coats, then wire wool to take out the tiny imperfections, then another 2 super thin coats and believe it or not it's done!
2 days for finishing....amazing.
Just gave the neck it's first micron thin coat, rubbing it deep into the grain until it looks like there's nowt on it, just 2 more of those should give me what I'm looking for  Very Happy 

while I do the neck (2 days), fret dress and polish (1 day) the body will sit to properly dry out, I'll leave it a week then a light buffing to not quite gloss but a tad more than satin.

Bloomin' luvverly!

pics when we get some sun.......

Cat I saw your cs350 pic in the family thread, very nice indeedy!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:19 pm

Luverly Pete!  cyclops 
You should really be able to play the Blues on that baby!  clown

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:28 pm

Laughing 

Seeing as how I already have a (newly acquired) Red T1a with the MMK's.......
I have a few options here...Tonerider Generator pair?
A pair of Dimarzio K-10 Hondo OEM jobbies that I recently adapted to cut their coils...they sound superb in single coil mode and so extremely simple to do..tape off, the coil joining wire is already exposed so a simple solder and heatshrink deal and new fabric tape winding, fanny's yer aunt! cracking!
SD jazz N and a 59 B maybe?
GFS fat pat ..
OR...I have a pair of cream MMK45's....
I'd love to hear a pair of the mmk 53's.....

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:30 pm

Heres a question thats probably been brought up before...
Which of the woods in the thunder do you think has the most influence in its tone? ash or maple?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:53 pm

Maple.

Tonerider Rocksong, very decent.

Or try this.

MMK45 magnet change.
Westone on right, Alnico II on left.


Installed.
Find MMK 45's powerful but a bit muddy. Defines the sound.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:59 pm

Hmm I had thought of this before, there's an ebay seller with AII magnets, and you're right about the muddiness..plus I think the gain circuit adds some extra mud as my trans red T1a is nowhere near as clear as the T1, only differences are the circuit and a thicker finish on the red.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:54 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:Heres a question thats probably been brought up before...
Which of the woods in the thunder do you think has the most influence in its tone? ash or maple?
I have two T1-A's, one with Ash wings, the other all Maple. It's a bit subjective of course but the Maple one sounds much louder. Mind you it's also a string thru versus a top loader on the Ash model which has a not insignificant influence. Of course, the bridge is also sitting on that Maple strip, so...

Interesting mod Damian. Would seem to push the 45 more towards the 53 maybe?

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:26 am

Ok so it's mock up time!

Original MMk's?


Ivory MMK's?



chrome covers?



black covers? (not these emg selects...but you get the idea)



I quite like the black covers, forgot to take a pic with the black alloy knobs, but looks good.
gut instinct says original mmk's...

Headstock so far...



small accident with the upper leftmost tip of the W...came off with a coat of oil, light was low and I thought I had it back in place, not bothered at all...it's unique!

another coat on the neck drying in the sun...it's outrageous how good this tru-oil is, self levelling up to a point, dries so fast and feels beautiful, love it.



The bridge and saddles cleaned, polished a bit and lacquered, the knobs are Gretsch copies, same dimensions and look rather good in the flesh.
Looking for one more original brass one for a set......anyone?

I was going to leave the body to cure a while longer, wire wool and buff out, but there's absolutely no need as it looks and feels superb IMO, it's rock hard already and just the right glossyness (a word!)

Hope to have this all done at the weekend....just need some saddle springs as these are rusty beyond salvation, but will suffice, unless I can find 6 spring loaded pens in the art cupboard   Twisted Evil

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:38 pm

I like the Ivory ones mate...doesn't detract from the luuurvely blue colour as much as the black ones.

Thats' gonna turn out to be a belter bud  Thumb Up ...can't wait to see it all finished and ready to rawk!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Barry on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:47 pm

Yup, Ivory!

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:19 pm

Plus one for the Ivory, looking great Sarge.

Out of interest how do the chrome covers look with the Ivory surrounds?

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/473547831/New-Pair-of-Chrome-Guitar-Humbucker-Pickups-Surrounds.jpg


Last edited by Meadows on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : time)

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by punkyjam67 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:33 pm

Another thumbs-up for ivory here - not normally a fan, but they sit just right in the maple strip & don't distract from the wing colour, IMHO Smile

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:37 pm

Wow! it's a good job I'm making the decisions 'round 'ere innit?  my least favourite is the ivory lol
Si...no, just no!

I'm just reassembling the various parts, found new springs, new saddle grub screws, need to solder the active crossover switch, new nuts for all the switches and jack....it's starting to look like a guitar again.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Meadows on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:43 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:
Si...no, just no!
Lol , I'll get me coat Mad

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:44 pm

lol!  makes it look like a chinese gibson ripoff

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Westbone on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:03 pm

A mix? or ivory.


All aboard the......



Is that timber showing through or just reflections? on your pictures above.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:18 pm

Ahh, now I didn't try that combo, black rings n ivory!  that's got legs for sure.

No timber, just reflections.

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:20 pm

I would have tried zebras, but only got one in the form of a Tonerider.

did mmk45's ever come in zebra?

Sgt. Vimes
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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:38 pm

Ah, can't do ivory coz I need 3 wires from the bridge pup, ivory only got 2..

Sgt. Vimes
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Number of posts : 3102
Age : 45
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Registration date : 2011-11-03

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Catalyst on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:01 pm

Sgt. Vimes wrote:
did mmk45's ever come in zebra?
Sure did...my CS350 has 'em Cool

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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:04 pm

Oh yeah... I always thought that cs350 would look better with black pups  Very Happy

Sgt. Vimes
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Re: Back from the dead, T1a restoration

Post by Sponsored content Today at 1:11 pm


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