My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

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My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:22 am

Hello all

I've been getting some tips from Corsair which I am grateful for but I have finally taken his advaice to put my project up for all to view.

I came across a Westone Pantera that was completed painted with an acrylic paint. The paint job was not preofesisonally done and it didn't look too good, but that doesn't matter. At heart I am a traditionalist and so I wish to restore it to its original state. So I'm asking, perhaps pleading for help, tips, perhaps a couple of needed parts.

It is my one and only Westone. Never had one before and hadn't seen one since the 80s when they were hanging up in a local music store. I remember falling in love with what I now know as a Candy Red Pantera but I was advised to buy something else Sad. However now I prefer this Pearl White finish.

The only parts that I do not have are:
- the rectangular backplate
- the locking nuts
- the tremolo arm and the trem shaft it fits into
- the original humbucker
- the wrench thing that is screwed to the back of the headstock

I'd be really appreciative if you think you can be of help with those parts.

So in the next post I'll place up the pictures and request for your thoughts. I'd love to read them.


Last edited by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:50 am

Firstly, should I re-paint this? As you can see there are a few areas on the body where the paint is eroded back to its timber but I must add that although it looks like it is bare timber there is still some transparent film over these bare timber areas which suggests that Westone covered the timber with some clearcoat before applying the primer and then the paint, and finally the top coat over the decals.
 
... but I am no expert at all ... so I stand to be corrected.

Also, the neck and body, were completed covered in some poor attempt of a re-paint. I removed the unoriginal paint using an all purpose acrylic thinner which didn't cut through the original factory clearcoat. The body and the neck have lots of little dings, but the clearcoat is scratched up extensively, an example of the scratches are seen clearer on the headstock but it is all over the body as well.













Last edited by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:55 am













Last edited by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:59 am

So the big questions if I want to restore the finish to its original finish as closely as possible, are:

Is there knowledge out there of the actual Satin Black and Pearl White paint codes?

Is there knowledge of the type of paint that was used?

Can I obtain the correct decals from somewhere?

In fact, is the headstock decal really a decal or is it a stencil with a coat of Pearl White paint beneath the Black coat of paint?

I'd love to get some guidance and answers.

Cheers

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:05 pm

Full respray there!

2  pack paint. Your local car paint shop should be able to help with pearl. It's not cheap though.

You might be able to flat the neck back with a very fine wet 'n dry and a good polish to save the logo.

Then it can look like this... Smile


http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t1964-pantera-x300-pearl-white

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:17 pm

Is 2 pack what was originally used?

There are varying Pearl White's. What I see is more of a yellow colour but the photographs show a slightly 'whiter' colour.

So there is no knowledge of exact colour codes for either Pearl White and Satin Black?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by gittarasaurus on Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:10 pm

it is not a snow white for sure

the finish has a very, very fine grained pearlyness

the color looks more white outdoors in sunlight
indoors in incandescent lights it looks more yellowish

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:17 pm

The lacquer yellows with age.

Local car paint shop. 2 pack is original paint

Pearl in the light


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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by gittarasaurus on Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:29 pm

i'm not usually a fan of the so-called "relic" look to a guitar because many times they look to be faked-up, not like what a real worn guitar looks like.

but sometimes it can work if it isn't overdone.

i got this Lotus strat from somebody who tried to paint it, but the job was lousy and even after having it for many months, the paint would stick to the guitar stand, and then get on other guitars and what ever else touched it. messy stuff. so i started to sand it down for a re-finish and i came to this white under coat. i actually really liked the color of it, so i stopped sanding and left it right there. over time, as i have played it, the color has changed and darkened in uneven ways around the body. more so in the areas i handle the body most, and now i love the way it looks.

restoring your guitar to "original" finish paint etc., is probably not possible without great expense, but you might be able to find a satisfying alternative along the way

best of luck

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:41 pm

Pearl paint IS expensive. You'll need a base coat, then pearl, then lacquer.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:09 pm

Thanks. I appreciate the info and pictures.

I'm aware that it will be expensive.

The relic look only suit Strats and Teles in my opinion, then again that's what Fender has been able to condition me to believe I guess. On Pantera's, to me the relic look doesn't suit, but of course I've not seen enough to be conditioned in believing otherwise.

OK, what about the decals? The first question is, does any Westone enthusiast out there re-produce them?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:31 pm

Here's a pdf on logos, Thanks Jim.
resize and print on transfare paper
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6659007/logos/Westone%20Logos%201.pdf

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:39 pm

You'll need white for the headstock and clear for the body decal.
This stuff.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=thin+transfare+clear+paper&_from=R40|R40|R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR5.TRC2.A0.H0.Xwater+slide+decal+paper&_nkw=water+slide+decal+paper&_sacat=0

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by corsair on Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:13 pm

The paint chips used for Westone were, according to information received, those used for Toyota cars so matching shouldn't be too awkward!!
Expensive is a relative term, and given that you get what you pay for, paint is one area I don't skimp even roughly.... and I'm a renowned cheapskate always looking for a cheaper way!Laughing

I also reckon a full repray, but personally I'd go for the Pantera red as that Pearl White is a little bland and a Pantera needs to shout out "Look at me, look at me!!"

Damian's right; that headstock may come right with some judicious wet and dry sanding with ever increasing grades of paper and a final polish, and besides; making your own water slide decals is easy peasy: look, if I can do it, anyone can!

The parts are more problematic, though MMk 45s can still be found on eBay though they're getting pricey. I would humbly suggest a Kahler behind-the-nut stringlock as the original item is as rare as chickens lips and a little fragile to boot!
Damian has a very elegant work around for the wang bar and collar which is one I have used myself involving an original FR bar; PM him!!

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:46 pm

Thanks for the links re decals.

I like the Pearl White. In a google search there are photos of a PW Pantera X300 snapped outside under natural sunlight and I think it is great Smile

I was looking at Toyota colours a few weeks ago and the PW codes altered during the 80s. SOmebody else in another thread mentions the paint used is Dupont Imron.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:21 am

ar8284 wrote:. SOmebody else in another thread mentions the paint used is Dupont Imron.

Imron = 2 pack
Imron(trade name) is very good/hard wearing paint, also very,very costly. Probably cost you a lot more than the guitars worth.

There are many equally good 2 pack paints out there more than suitable for a guitar at a much lower cost and  you certainly wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Isn't exactly a highly collectable vintage guitar is it!

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:41 pm

I agree Westbone, besides if it was a vintage Fender I wouldn't contemplate a re-finish. I'm thinking the Toyota colour codes of PW between the '85 to '88 era would be right. The PW is classified as a metallic finish?

What about the black finish? It looks satin in pictures, I can't exactly tell from mine through the scratches. Like a flat black or a flat 'jet' black?  An automotive paint store should be able to colour match both anyway?

I'm hoping there is somebody out there that owns one of these and can trace out the backplate and screw-hole positions. I'm missing mine and want to make one. I guess the correct dimensions would suffice.

I'm inspired by this one I found in a google image search.


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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:22 pm

I'd say the tip would need to be built up a bit?










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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by corsair on Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:39 pm


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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Barry on Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:11 pm

These references might come in handy:

Our pal Trevor, over in the Guitar Gallery, has posted a terrific step by step on the subject with pictures: DROP FILL RESTORATION

Also: http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t5270-restoring-plastic-finishes

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:38 pm

ar8284 wrote:I agree Westbone, besides if it was a vintage Fender I wouldn't contemplate a re-finish.

I'm inspired by this one I found in a google image search.

Here is a '64 Strat which IS getting a refinish because it's already had one a number of years back.


I posted the one that inspired you to refinish in PW in my first reply.
Here it is again.
http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t1964-pantera-x300-pearl-white

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:10 am

Thanks again.

Ah so it is your Pantera Westbone! Nicest looking guitar I've seen. Is it all original or is it a refinish? Did these models sometimes come with a chrome trem bar and collar? Did they come with a chrome wrench-key holder? 

I'm now storing these info links in an itemised document so that I do not have to be chasing and repeating my questions, well at least try to avoid it.

I just found a page where I've read posts about a fellow called Tom Presley and realised he's the daddy of it all, and that's where you guys know about the Imron and Toyota colour schemes!

Is the PW colour considered to be a true metallic? I'm looking through the Toyota colour chart to pinpoint a code.

What I cannot find in a search is information on the black finish on the neck. Any guesses on that? 

Hey Westbone, the Pantera is the first guitar I've owned that has the FR type trem arms, so I know zilch about them. In the first pic in this link http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t4498-replacement-trem-arm-collars-for-ft-bendmaster-bridges?highlight=trem+collar is this an original Westone collar? I notice the threaded bit in the hole in the bridge seems fastened and beneath this is a metal block for it to be fastened/screwed. I have the Bendmaster Deluxe and the metal block is not directly beneath the hole so does this procedure in this link http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t3228p20-bendmaster-ft?highlight=bendmaster still apply?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:35 am

Thanks for the other links fellows.

On the back of the guitar, there is the backplate and that coverplate over the knob/switch cavity with semicircular ends. I have this semicircular coverplate. The material is quite flexible/floppy. Is the backplate stiff like Strats or is it flexible (same material) as this semicircular coverplate?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:39 am

My X300 is 100% original...and 100% mint.

The neck is only satin on the front and rear of the headstock the rest is polished up. It's the lacquer that's satin the black is base coat. Or it's just black base coat polished up.

For the Bendmaster Deluxe trem you'll need one of these. Available on ebay.+ 6mm trem arm to suit



The control cover plate you have is original the spring cover is a bit stiffer. 1.5mm abs material.

As for the paint, the choice is yours, never needed any.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:43 pm

Well I fear sounding silly here but I must ask, is this just some general apparatus that is adapted to be a collar or is it in fact the genuine part? A description for one of these to narrow my search would help.

Does the trem arm need to be lathed to have a 9mmX1 thread?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:13 pm

That is the genuine item. No machining is required.
Yours is the B/master deluxe, yes?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111539252254?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
Look at the photos
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-NOS-Bendmaster-Deluxe-Tremolo-for-80s-Westone-Guitar-/141494494963?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20f1baa6f3


If you read the article on the  other type it's for an FT type trem.


I'd be getting a load of flatting paper(don't ask me what grade?.. Laughing ) as you've a lot of flatting to do..... Twisted Evil

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:02 pm

OK. Gees ... expensive. However the base of the arm still needs to be threaded.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:24 am

ar8284 wrote: However the base of the arm still needs to be threaded.

You like making work for yourself!... Suspect

Just buy a threaded arm, 6mm, simple.. Rolling Eyes

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:54 am

Well I did say that I've never had experience with FR type trems Embarassed

So, your original Pantera X300 did come with chrome tremolo arm and chrome collar?

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:40 am

Don't mind trying to help but don't like repeating myself if you can't be bothered to read posts.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:21 am

I understand, and make no mistake I am reading a lot. My intention with the chrome question was to ask whether each line of Westone guitar had its inconsistencies with its hardware finishes. A picture on a Pantera front cover brochure appears to show brushed steel trem arm with black collar on a BD trem. Anyway, it is minor, I've got the idea and will move on.

My search for paint codes has led me to an Electra forum site and somebody (X189) says he/she used Duplicolour Universal flat black NG SF 104 for touch ups on his/her Electra, judging that it is a close match to his/her Electra. Hopefully this will be it. 

PS: The fellow that sold me the guitar sent me an extra pickup supposedly a UBC bridge humbucker from a Spectrum S or 5 (cant make out the character). Has thin red, white, and thick grey wire. On the back it has a gold sticker that says B 6.23 k ohms.

My serial number suggests it is made in '86.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by Westbone on Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:55 am

ar8284 wrote: A picture on a Pantera front cover brochure appears to show brushed steel trem arm with black collar on a BD trem.
The picture on the front cover is not even your model Pantera.

Good luck with your impending project.

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Re: My Impending Pantera X300 Restoration

Post by ar8284 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:34 am

Standard Pro X300 but with the BD in the top corner, probably threw me. 

Thank you, and thanks to Guitarsaurus, Barry and Corsair for those references.

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