Any idea what model this may be?

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Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:05 pm

Have just collected this LP style hollowbody and would appreciate any thoughts on what it might be or what it is a copy of. I was getting a Les Paul Recording vibe with slanted pickups but without the recording electronics Sad

The headstock script has been removed, there was a non original black scratch plate added, I think it looks much better without it now. The bridge is stamped MIJ and the saddle is stamped LP Bridge MIJ, both tarnished and flaking. These will need to be replaced for sure.

The pickups are Maxon 13X26. The pots are M500K, the cap is 221K 50P (the soldering does not look great so the electrics may have been changed)

On the back of the scratch plate is the hand written marking J8 or JB G#1

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Meadows61/media/Les%20Paul%20Maxon%20Pickups/LP%20Maxon%20G%20No%201%20005_zpsmlfpcums.jpg.html?sort=2&o=1

The pickups sound full and warm, slightly microphonic and the neck feels very comfortable, it's got a real blues feel to the sound. This has spent the last 28 years living in a hard case under the bed.

scratch ???? Any ideas guys


Last edited by Meadows on Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : after thought)

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:19 pm

Ok well the pickups have helped a bit, from the serial number they were made Dec 1973. And then I found this page where a guy has restored a CSL MIJ Les Paul, lots in common with mine.

http://www.smpartizan.com/?page_id=4713

Will crack on and see what else is out there.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by BriGuy1968 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:41 pm

I did a little searching and found the brand name "Greco" who apparently made a Les Paul Recording copy.  Even their logo design looks similar to Gibson's.  Sorry, I'm at work right now, so couldn't spend a lot of time searching.  Hope that's helpful!

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:56 pm

Many thanks for taking the time to have a look, Greco is good.

I have also been checking out the Ibanez 2372 and their range, also the various Les Paul personal guitar copies, Greco, CSL, Ibanez. It does appear to be a factory production line, just can't match the scratch plate design and configuration YET!!!! Smile and wonder what the hand written J8 (B) G#1 pertains too.

A friend of mine is Japanese so I will ask her to translate the writing at the bottom of the neck, could shed some light.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by hoax on Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:06 pm

It is a Les Paul Recording copy and had either Zenta or Angelica name badge nailed on to the headstock. It should have 4 pots in a row and two slider switches on the white plate, which should of course be black. I think it was probably made by Teisco

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:22 am

Now we are getting there, thanks Hoax.

Upon further inspection of the scratchplate, it would appear this is a replacement, all be it well done. The original pots and toggle switch seem to have been used but the jack socket is a more contemporary style. So the original plate may have been damaged at some stage.

This link shows a Franpton LPR copy with lots of similarities.

http://www.guitarworkshops.net/Franpton.htm

As to the original branding?, who knows, a previous owner has sanded down the script logo, there are no badge pin holes present.

I don't know if this style of Maxon pickup design had a specific name but Ibanez also used them in their 2380 LPR, as did many others in this design.

Am going to keep an eye out for an original scratchplate, would be great to take it back to it's original format.

So the shopping list now is for a new bridge and saddle, period jack socket, the "L" shaped pick-guard support, don't know about the tuners yet? Might also get the electrics redone to maximise any possible screening.

Recording to follow when she is finished Cool

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:26 pm

Hey Si.
I belong to the el Degas forum over 'ere, which was mainly a Canadian white label brand. I have an outstanding ED Gibson Dove clone which I love.

Back in the 70's they offered up some outstanding MIJ instruments, many of which (electrics) we suspect were Mats and/or Fujigen made. Frustratingly, no definitive records survived to confirm one way or another (Lord knows we've tried to find 'em!)

I remembered that they sold a version of the LP Recording model so I did a search and kicked out at least two threads for you to compare. Hope they help a bit:


POST ONE -honey finish

POST TWO -dark walnut finish

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Westbone on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:40 pm

The thing that throws me is the zero fret and neck plate.
Zero frets are usually on cheaper Jap copies and that 6 screw neck plate????

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:50 pm

Thanks so much Barry, so many variations on the same model. The more I see that original loaded pickguard I know I need to find one. I will check out the el Degas forum later tonight, looks like some interesting models....hope that spring air is finally coming your way Smile

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:00 pm

Westbone wrote:The thing that throws me is the zero fret and neck plate.
Zero frets are usually on cheaper Jap copies and that 6 screw neck plate????
 
I know what you mean about the six screws, first time I have seen it but when googling images of LP Recording copies I found quite a few examples of that finishing...don't know???

As to the general level of quality, I know it's early days but this guitar has a great neck on her, the chambered body weight is spot on and those Maxon's are a total bonus. It could be a lesser model but it's a good one if it is. When I see my friend hopefully she will be able to translate the writing inside. Will report back with any further info  Smile

Still can't believe it has sat under someone's bed for 28 years in a hard case...total bonus

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:06 pm

Meadows wrote:...hope that spring air is finally coming your way Smile
Nope. No
-19° C with the wind chill as I write at 1:00 PM. Nice and sunny but you'll freeze yer G string in a nanosecond.

Global warming my arse! Even colder this year than last year's "Polar Vortex".
AL GORE CAN BITE ME!!

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:14 pm

Not good Barry, I've lived and worked in Montreal and Norway and I find as we get older that the cold is just crap and slows you right down...wrap up warm mate and drive safely....

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Cheers Si.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:37 pm

Westbone wrote:...Zero frets are usually on cheaper Jap copies...
Don't let Gretsch hear you say that.

Country Gentleman Made in Japan by Terada!

(Just happened to have worked on the store's yesterday)

Oh, and Zombie Chet Atkins might also come and beat on you unmercifully with his thumb pick. Look Over There

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Westbone on Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:03 pm

Good ol' Chet... Laughing  long as he doesn't bite me with his zombie tooth.

We are talkin' old Jap copies here not new Jap made replicas.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Just to conclude, still non the wiser as to the exact model or manufacturer, definitely confirmed by Japanese friend that the markings on neck pocket are from Japan. Bridge and tail piece replaced, fret polish and sett up.

The low impedance pickups and semi hollow body make for a very warm tone, particularly like the middle position for chopping and the neck for lead work.

Image from a local beer festival with Spike, our percussionist giving his opinions, overall very happy with the guitar, quite a unique sound from these Maxons.


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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:31 pm

While following the LP Recording vibe, I am in a slight dilemma as to whether to have a pitch on either of these.

The first is a Revelation (modern build) (No local stockist so would have to buy untested)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361272638843?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The second is this Ibanez 2373 Lawsuit 1970's

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231582672968?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The latter being around double the price

I think I know which one is going to give me the quality and sound I'm expecting but these Revelations are also getting good reviews.

If anyone has any experience of them, your insight would be most appreciated, cheers Smile

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by corsair on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:38 am

I had an Ibanez 2588 about a thousand years ago and it was OK... not mind blowingly out of this world, but OK.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Sgt. Vimes on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:16 am

I've had a revelation recording in my saved searches for eons,  never come available when I have funds! 
They're meant to be superb from all accounts.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks Guys

Just spoke to the store selling the Revelation, he confirmed your thoughts Pete that they punch well above their price tag, very easy to play, great tuners, even better electronics care of Mr Entwistle and then the usual killer for me, the recording is a solid slap of Mahogany weighing in at 4.5kg (9 .9lbs). Shame seeing as how mine is a chambered body which is what attracted me in the first instance.

I will try and get more info from the guy in Germany selling the Ibanez

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:25 pm

Hey Si, I noticed that you're wearing a Parker Tee shirt in that pic!  Very Happy
Do you have one perchance?  Given your preference for lighter guitars I would think yes. 
If yes, spill the beans. If not, why not?

I love my little PM20 Hornet.
All the versatility of a Lester without the friggin' weight.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:18 am

Hey Barry hope your keeping well mate

Sorry to disappoint but no fly's in the Meadows household (YET!!!), the t shirt was a gift. Don't see too many over here but I have heard they are very light on the strap.

Now if you know of any Westone or Matsumoku t shirts for sale I would definitely be in the market.

Will check out the PM20 Hornet when I finish work later, thanks for the heads up, have a good one Smile

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:38 pm

Meadows wrote:...Now if you know of any Westone or Matsumoku t shirts for sale I would definitely be in the market.Smile
http://www.westoneguitars.net/shop/  Razz

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Meadows on Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:22 pm

Hey Barry, thanks for the heads up on the PM20 Hornet, I happened to find one almost straight away and she is an absolute beauty, imported 8 years ago by a guy from new who didn't play it, just kept it in the case ????

Can not believe the build quality of this guitar, especially the neck joint and the pups sound fantastic to my ears. Sadly though it is not a keeper, I am so used to the neck radius on the Cutlass and the hornet neck despite it's playability and quality has a very different feel. Also it would become a case queen for sure, far too good condition wise to take on the road. Hey ho, nothing ventured !!!

Here are a couple of images from her now ebay listing which frankly do not do her finish true justice

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271915163180?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Thanks again for the good call, keep them coming Smile

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

Post by Barry on Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:49 pm

Ah, pity. These really are sleepers, but likely not for everyone as you say. I find the neck very comfy for my 'ole arthritic hands but it is on the narrow side for those needing more room to spread out.

Glad you were able to followup on it.

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Re: Any idea what model this may be?

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