Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

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Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:36 am

Hi all,

I just purchased my third Westone.... Very Happy

I now have included a thunder 1-A alongside my Thunder3 and my Super Headless bass.

This new Thunder1A was is bad shape when I found her, she was the main axe of a now retired musician... All musicians are different, I keep my instrument clean and tidy and some like to leave all the Mojo on the guitar... This baby had the last 25 years of filth on it... never once been cleaned or wiped down, the body was almost brown in color (this was the dirtiest guitar I ve ever seen in 30 yrs).... After several cleaning (3) I managed to get all the crust of filth off using a brush on the body.... She is starting to look good, she has less damage then expected....

Now I have 2 problems..... Compare to other brands of Matts, the Thunder 1 has a very thin finishing compared to others... It also has open poors (dont know if this is how it is spelled) The previous owner has gone thru the finishing on several places on the guitar leaving bare wood.... These are only on certain area and I would prefer not redoing the entire body for that... Is there something someone might suggest for this type of problem... I would prefer not leaving bare wood since it gets dirty and changes color easily... Manage to get most of the black out of the grain......

Also, He did not like the script logo and rubbed it off.... I read some other post were someone might be able to get water stickers for this... The headstock looks naked Embarassed

Can anyone help :?:

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Steve777 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:53 am

Hi P.

There is no easy way to touch up natural wood guitars that have wear spots on the body work. Personally, I would bite the bullet and remove the neck, hardware and electrics, and sand the the finish back to natural again using progressively finer papers. A cheap and fantastic finish is danish oil which enhances the grain. Three or four coats should suffice, eventually cutting the finish back using 0000 wire wool and bees wax. By the way, you wipe on Danish oil with a rag which simply soaks in to the wood creating a shellac type finish. No streaky paint brush strokes !!!

Really, all the above sounds involving but many of us have done this without a problem.

Happy renovation

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:29 am

...This baby had the last 25 years of filth on it... never once been cleaned or wiped down, the body was almost brown in color (this was the
dirtiest guitar I ve ever seen in 30 yrs)
Ewwww! pig
Some guys give other guys a bad name! It's a wonder it was playable at all.
Just another testament to Uncle Mats indestructible construction!

I'm glad it's in your capable hands now Pierre. You're gonna love it, um, eventually!
I'm constantly amazed at the tonal variation mine has...and that active boost is downright scary!

Is yours a natural finish or coloured?
You're right about the finish being a little light. I too have a few spots on mine where you can run your fingernail across the open grain. That, plus a wee bit of "belt buckle blues" and pick scratches, and I entertained the thought of refinishing it as well. But it's nowhere near what you describe however.

Best of luck with the restoration. Can't wait to see the pix!

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:48 am

Hi Barry,

After all that cleaning, what I thought to be a real beater turned out to be quite nice... Seems the coating of human grease, sweat and unknow residue gave the guitar extra protection..LOL lol! Its natural in color, I will be posting pitures of it later tonight with the areas that I am speaking about... I just would like to get her in a nice condition were I do not have to worry about the wood changing color in those area.. I have a Peavey T-40 bass natural finish were I went thru the finish and I cant seem to get the black out of the wood grain....

Steve777,

Thanks for your reply. Maybee after you review the pictures that I will post later you might suggest something else... The damage is not that severe and I am familiar with restoring equipment but would rather keep this to a mininum on this one to keep her as original as possible.... Seing that all the westone experts are here and that this would not be a rare event on these.... Maybee someone has a quick cure for my ill....

Westones are quite rare in my parts.... Seems like they never came out East in Canada.... In the last 7 years I ve seen 6 in total.... I bought 3 and I know the person who bought the other 3 ( he was faster then me....)

Also, this is a new board :?: ... I had posted my other Westone here but cant find them no more scratch

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Steve777 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi P, the original lacquer finish was polyester, an extremely durable top coat. It was used at one time as the protective finish on wooden TV cabinets in the 60's.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve? If the wood is exposed in places then, yes, it will pick up grime and dirt. However, area patching with polyester ( not Polyurethane) is costly and you only have 15 mins to spray before it turns to jelly in the gun.

If you use another varnish type product, you run the risk of a mismatch between the original and patch finish. Plus, different finishes are absorbed in to wood at different rates. You might find you'll end up with a patchwork guitar of differing lacquers. At least the exposed wood problem will have been solved.

Lets have look at the pics

A bientot

Steve

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:20 pm

here she is after 3 wash... not the same color as she walked in....







here are the trouble area that I would like to fix...




She is also missing 1 brass saddle and does not have the original knobs...

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by corsair on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:40 pm

Spares has the knobs but the saddle is problematic; just keep an eye out on the auction sites and make a nuisance of yourself at the local guitar shops asking to be let loose in their spares box! Laughing

I agree that the wear and tear below the pups is unsightly; is the wear through the finish? If it is, a full sanding and refinishing are in order, IMHO, as you really don't want any bare wood showing anywhere! If it's not all the way through, I'm not sure if I'd muck around with it too much as Uncle Matt finished his gear very well indeed and I know that the paint finishes are about 1mm thick, and that the clear coats on my Vantage are incredibly thick, and hard!

Now, that said, if you're dead set on re-finishing, then trundle around a few of the up-market furniture places and see if they can't do a blend repair; I've seen area repairs done on tables etc, that have only had the damaged area re-finished that you wouldn't know had been done; this, however, is truly a specialist job and needs a tradesmans' touch! Smile

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:56 pm

Hello P and Welcome! Smile

Firstly, I had the same problem once with a Thunder I that I was reluctant to take apart and refinish. Since I have restored quite a few Westones (as well as other guitars) I know exactly where you are coming from regarding the problem areas. If you have managed to clean all the muck out of the grain, you are already half way there. I would suggest that you fine sand over the worst area taking it slightly onto the surrounding area. You have two choices for the next stage: 1) Use a natural coloured grain filler (Rustins do a small tin for about £5) over several days until the area is built up level with the rest of the body. 2) Make a mixture of sawdust and good quality PVA glue and spread this into the offending areas, allowing a few days to dry out completely. Either method works well but it is best if they are applied in thin layers and allowed to dry before applying the next layer. Once dry, the area can be sanded smooth and blended to the rest of the guitar, finishing off with a thin coat of clear varnish.

However, nowadays I do prefer to get straight in there with the sander and start again from scratch!
Laughing

I have a wee booklet which I have written and I will be happy to send you a PDF copy of it if you would like to PM me with your email address. The book still isn't finished but there might be some bits and pieces in it which you may find useful. I will also send you the details for the guy I know who makes the waterslide transfers.

Good luck!
cheers

Polly
:queen: :flower:

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:17 pm

Thank you Polly,

I will PM you...

I was avoiding a full restore since allready have so many to do....

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:12 pm

No problem! Smile

I'm always happy to help where I can... email on its way to you.

Polly
:queen: :flower:

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:09 pm

Hey Pierre she's looking almost as good as mine! Laughing
You've got a terrific guitar in your collection!

I notice though that you have the "newer"(?) bridge style. My '81 Thunder and '81 Avenger both have that weird barrel arrangement with the string offset nonsense. We had quite discussion about it both here and on the Mats site: THREAD

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:50 am

Hi Barry,

I was following the thread in regards to your bridge. I was under the impression that Squid helped you out... Yours is the same bridge as the Vantage Avenger 325, as you know I have the same model but never bothered with the bridge. It works just fine...My mono, if it aint broken, dont fix it....

This Thunder is the 1982 model ( version 2 ) its got the string thru... I also prefer this bridge but need to find one brass saddle... currently have 5 brass and one silver on it... no big deal but... if I can have them all the same...

When I bought it, it looked all scratch up and in poor condition... A real beatter... I even mentioned that to you in my email to you... All the scratches were not on the guitar... the Scratches were on the film of scum covering the guitar... pig

I am serious when I say that the filth gave it an extra layer of protection.... Surprised

I am happy as all in the outcome.. Very Happy

I received the book from Polly and she also emailed me the Logo... Polly has the Bird logo wich is on version 3 and on... I would need the first Script logo without bird... Can any one help.... My 2 other Westones have the bird logo....

After admiring my new Westone, I decided to fill in the damaged area Like Polly sugested and touch up the finishing... I looked at the job she did in her Book and was amazed at the result... For such a small area of damage... would not justify all the work in sanding the entire guitar...

Still, I am very surprise as to how thin this finishing is on this Thunder I compared to my other Matts....

Corsair, Thanks for the sugestions... I will bother the music stores in my area... Someone is bound to have a saddle lying around... As for the finishing tradesman... We have Polly....

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:29 am

Frenchy wrote:...I was under the impression that Squid helped you out...
He was the final arbiter, yes, and confirmed that we weren't all going crazy! It was a built-in Uncle Mats design "feature". Rolling Eyes

...if it aint broken, dont fix it....
Yup, that's the conclusion I arrived at too...finally. Looks strange but a broken string replacement is cheaper than a re-fit!

... A real beatter... I even mentioned that to you in my email to you... All the scratches were not on the guitar... the Scratches were on the film of scum covering the guitar...
I am serious when I say that the filth gave it an extra layer of protection....
This reminds me of the old joke about the wildly optimistic kid who dived into a pile of horse manure and started enthusiastically digging with his bare hands. When asked what in hell he was doing, he replied, "Hey, with all this SH*T, there's just gotta be pony in here somewhere!!"
sunny

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:08 pm

Frenchy wrote:
... As for the finishing tradesman... We have Polly....

P.

Aw, thank you Pierre! Embarassed

Polly
:queen: :flower:

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:58 am

Can anyone help with a copy of the script Logo?

TIA

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:19 pm

Best I can do for you Pierre is shoot a pic of the headstock if that's any help?

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:52 pm

if you can put a ruler under it and a secound with the ruler for the height ..I would really appreciate it... Very Happy

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:49 pm

I'll see what I can do Pierre.
My kid's having a birthday party tomorrow (14, yikes!) and it's going to be one of those paint ball and go kart outings, and it's out of town to boot.

So it might be a little while before I can get back to you...assuming I survive it all! What a Face

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:55 am

one of those paint ball and go kart outings

Cool...

...assuming I survive it all! What a Face

Are you kidding!... You know have the chance to shoot the Little #$%^ down without looking bad or getting in trouble..... Show them what the old guys can do..... Can I come.... Cool I'll be Back!

Only girls here... Sad Can you say pyjama parties and chick flicks.... Rolling Eyes


P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:11 pm

Frenchy wrote:
...Only girls here... Sad Can you say pyjama parties and chick flicks.... Rolling Eyes

Pierre,

Poor you!
Rolling Eyes
Try persuading them to go for the paint ball and go-carting instead! It would be much more fun! bounce I know which one I would choose! Laughing

Polly :queen: :flower:

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:56 pm

Well, I'm back. And survived the day, more or less.
I dunno...pyjamas & flicks, versus sweaty teen aged boys with ravenous appetites and attitude (gimme the money, now get lost!).
(sigh) geek

But I digress...

Pierre, I did manage to shoot a few pix for you. I hope they're usable.
I reduced them to 1024 resolution to make them a bit more manageable and saved them in JPG format. Let me know if you need something else like PostScript or TIFF. The originals in (much) higher resolution are also available but they run close to 1 meg each in size!

Of course anyone else who needs 'em is welcome too! Smile
Here are the thumbnail links:








Cheers!

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:57 pm

Thank you Barry...

You the man.... and you survived! cheers

Thats pretty much what I needed, If any one knows the font type that would also help out greatly instead of going thru them one by one. Did someone in the past cover the font types for the logos?

Polly, whenever I suggest something like that, I always get the same response...." Huh, those are guy things... not for us... " they then disapear in theyre room to gossip and play with makeup.... Girlthings.....

Barry, I like your drawing table.... You in the trade. Your headstock is nice and clean, not even a dent on it.... the logo almost looks like it was put on afterwards like lettraset...

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:53 am

You're welcome Pierre.
Yeah, the guitar is actually in pretty good shape, especially considering that I got it from a heavy metal player! That, plus it came with the original case, is the main reason I paid the asking price without haggling. The headstock is very clean and I'm happy the guy didn't scrape the logo off!
(You're right, it does look like it was put on with Letraset.) Very Happy

I'm not sure how you are going to try to duplicate this thing, but I suspect that the logotype is likely a customized piece of art. I doubt if you'll match it off the shelf, but you can certainly try. There are a number of web sites which will assist you in narrowing down the style. Try Googling under "font matching" or "font identification".

But I think your best bet would be to crop and print the logo then have made into a transfer scaled to the actual measurements. Maybe a Tee-shirt company would be a good place to start? No idea of cost though. :?:

And the drawing table? A left over from another lifetime when I was an engineering draftsman. I'm surprised you identified it from the picture! It's a solid oak table that was already old when I bought it from a previous employer in about 1965. Probably dates from the 40's. I paid $25 for it.
The old stuff seems to last, eh? afro <--glad this fad didn't though!

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55 am

The headstock is very clean and I'm happy the guy didn't scrape the logo off!

Lucky you... seems quite easy to take it off.... on second look, it looks more like silk screening ....

Try Googling under "font matching" or "font identification".

Thanks for the tip, will do that... I just thought maybee someone allready had done it in the past...

I'm surprised you identified it from the picture!

The attachement plate on the ruler for the drafting arm is a dead giveaway.... Also a backgroung history in the family with Architecte... Grew up playing with left over Letraset... Made my own logos...... Smile

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:32 pm

Frenchy wrote:...on second look, it looks more like silk screening....
If this was made anywhere else I'd say no, but given Matsumoku's obsession with quality, it might just be a silk screened logo, although I have no idea how they'd do it easily or consistently. I think it's more likely to be a heat transfer process of some sort.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:42 pm

Pierre, Smile

I have the details of a guy over here in the UK who makes excellent waterslide transfers. All you need to do is to send him a clear image of the logo with all the appropriate measurements and he'll come up with the goods. He includes full instructions on how to apply the transfers and always supplies a few spares in case of cock-ups! I'll PM you with his details.

Polly
:queen: :flower:

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by corsair on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:47 pm

Pollyanna wrote:Pierre, Smile

I have the details of a guy over here in the UK who makes excellent waterslide transfers. All you need to do is to send him a clear image of the logo with all the appropriate measurements and he'll come up with the goods. He includes full instructions on how to apply the transfers and always supplies a few spares in case of cock-ups! I'll PM you with his details.

Polly
:queen: :flower:

+1; I've used 'em and they're very good indeed.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:02 pm

Thank's Polly....

I'm all set....

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Barry on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:10 pm

Talk about yer global village...!
sunny

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by Frenchy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:26 am

Talk about yer global village...!

That is the reason why I came to this Forum... I did participate on the old forum for a little while and Polly also participated on the Guitar Gallery. I always admired her gutsy and ingenious approach to restoring instruments... Seeing that she specialized with Westone and that this Thunder seemed of a different finish as my other Matts... I decided to come to the specialist directly....

I got to say... You guys are really a friendly and helpfull bunch...

Thanks you for taking the time... Smile

P.

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Re: Missing finish and logo on Thunder-1A

Post by hoax on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:23 pm

I can do the script for £4.50 + £1 postage - look on UK Ebay.

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