Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by tpresley on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:53 pm

Jesper, you are the MAN! Fantastic info for everyone!

I've used the Don Teeter method for refretting on some of the Pantera models with the Ebony necks. Works great but much more complicated than your description.

One thing that you have to watch out for is the over-action of the truss system. I've seen some guys separate the fingerboard from the neck because, when pulling the strings AND the frets, the fingerboard is what is really providing positive tension - the neck tries to reverse bow and a conflict torque applies. When the new frets are applied - fatter tangs, the fingerboard is actually forced in reverse torque due to the "wedging" action of the tangs. Result, fingerboad pops loose in spots. Fix? Loosen the truss a little at a time to prevent over reverse bowing the neck.

Great post. Now I know where to get a decent fret job in the future!

Tom

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Barry on Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:30 pm

tpresley wrote:Jesper, you are the MAN! Fantastic info for everyone!...
High praise indeed! And well deserved.
Jesper is held in very high regard for both his talent and his generous contributions both here and the Matsumoku forum.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by grogg on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:22 pm

Jesper,
Im amazed you crowned the frets with a flat file and didnt damage the wood. Your technique must be very precise. Nice job..

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by anaerobe on Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:11 pm

Glad these notes have achieved sticky status... tremendous information.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Racing on Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:00 pm

Grogg.
No.
I use a fretfile
A fretfile has a radius cut in on respective short side.

These come in various forms and diameters.
Most common ones for what we do here is 1,2 and 3mm.
Normaly refered to as small,medium and large.
The one i by far use the most is the mediums.

When done with the recrowning i dress the file with very fine grit emery.
Normaly like 1200,but then on the other hand i also work the entire fretboard with rubbing compound and a buffer after that-Ie,the rubbing works like an approx 2000-3000 grit.
End result is frets that are so smooth you´ve never experienced anything like it.
I guarantee.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by danagos on Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:15 am

Racing that was an inspiring series of posts, I'm impressed with your skills & generosity.

I stayed up WAY later than intended reading over your comments and studying the pics.

Thanks so much,

dan

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by cnevins on Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:19 pm

Jesper,

Can you briefly explain the theory behind the slope on the pickup side of the 12th fret, that you referred to above. I'm trying to visualize this and it ain't happening. I think truing this up on my prestige 150 may take care of the fret buzz that's ailing her. Thanks for your informational investment in here!

chris

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Racing on Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:49 am

I´d be happy to.

It all comes down to geometry and the basic understanding of string oscillation.
To make you understand that,regard the guitar fretboard and stringpack from the player POW so to say. From the side for lack of better description.
Strings are suspended at each end-one being the upper nut and the other being the bridge saddles.
Now,no matter how and where you strike the string the utmost margin of movement will be a given specific point just shy of halvways as far as oscillation goes.
This will in turn be the point of need for greatest leeway not to create fretbuzz,and this is what we compensate for by cutting slope.
That coupled with the fact that most guitars can not be adjusted down there as the trussrod anchor sits in such a position that trussrod adjustment doesn´t alter neck movement in those places.

Easy as that.

Likewise.
High E will require less leeway than low E due to oscillation. Also rather easy to grasp i guess.(Low E "moves around" more than high E as a matter of inherent physics)

It is to the point where you COULD cut the low end strings from say fret 14/15 or so and up harder/lower than the high E side...but mostly you don´t as a mere well done fret level job will let you get the stringpack as low as anybody´d want it anyways.(Ie;cut a "twist" into the upper frets)

Some might reason that they don´t fool around with low stringpack heights so why bother.
Weeeeeeell....
Even so the truth of the matter is that fretbuzz,which is really mechanical contact between the string and fret,will happen WAY before the human ear can hear it and as such hinder string performance. It will affect tone as well as sustain. As such a fretlevel job will make wonders for tone and sustain EVEN IF you like me use a medium height stringpack when playing-and this to the point where it is an eye opener.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by cnevins on Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:53 am

Jesper-

Yes that makes total sense! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with all of us. This treasure trove of information will be a valuable reference for those fortunate enough to happen upon it. Thanks again!

Chris

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:41 am

Thank you for an excellent thread.

I started the re-fret of my 86 Thunder 1 this weekend.

Having pulled the frets, sanded the fingerboard, inserted the new frets I can state the best single purchase for the job was my fret cleaning saw.

Got this one: http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/Tools-for-Guitar-Making/Luthier-Files-Knives-and-Saws/919-Fret-Slot-Cleaning-Saw-Single/flypage-ask.tpl.html

I'm not affiliated with Tonetech just a satifsfied customer before anyone asks and whilst this is expensive for a single tool, the fret slots were like new when I had finished using this Very Happy

Regarding the re-fret, it has taken me over a year to build up the courage to do it, but as the Thunder has been with me for 26 years, I wanted to be the one to look after her (how lame Very Happy ) and learn to maintain her myself. So far so good.

Great thread and I'll let you know how it turns out. Just need to dress and level the frets now. scratch

Cheers

Mark

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:01 am

Finished this weekend cheers

Many thanks for the thread which gave me the confidence to do the job.

Things I learnt:

1. To take my time.
2. To use a fret cleaning saw. Did a superb job of cleaning out the fret slots.
3. To remember that the crowning file works in one direction only and clean out the teeth after each fret. This prevented scoring the new fret with swarf stuck in the teeth.
4. I cut the slope into the frets rather than the fingerboard. My only reason being I am an amateur and putting new frets in is easier than sorting out the fingerboard if I stuff it up. Works great with no fret buzzing Smile
5. You don't need expensive tools. My fret clippers were a ground flat pair of cheap wire cutters. Cut flush with the edge of the finger board and did the job well.
6. I used a few walnuts to oil the fingerboard. Came up like new, well pleased with the finish and I got to eat the remaining nuts (don't eat the ones being used on the fingerboard pale )

So again, many thanks for all the information which I followed to the letter (except cutting in the slope which I did on the frets). My Thunder 1 plays as good as new.

Cheers

Mark

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Barry on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:46 am

Terrific Mark!
Yessir, our favourite Viking is the dog's bollox when it comes to this stuff...he's also a wiz with old tube amps in case you're leaning that way too!
Hey, now how about some pix?

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:40 am

Hi Barry

Yes pictures on the way.

Funnily enough I am maintaining a 1955 Broadway tube amp. Changed a blown bias cap and about to replace the output caps as they are showing their age as well.

Wonderful sound. Will get a picture up of this as well although maybe not in this thread.

Cheers

Mark


Last edited by marktigere1 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:45 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Got the wrong year!!)

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Racing on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:30 pm

What a Face What a Face

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by grogg on Wed May 09, 2012 4:25 pm

Encouraged by Jesper's tutorials Im going for it as well on my T1 bass body project.
Am trying the Jescar FW47104 EVO Gold fretwire mainly because I read a luthier raving about them on the web but also because they match the colour of the brass.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Westbone on Thu May 10, 2012 3:25 am

Refretting a neck that is barely worn at all???? Still, it's yours now. Change the machine heads to match as well. Go the whole hog.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Fri May 11, 2012 8:39 am

Time for an update.

I needed to replace the Nut as after the re-fret the tuning and intonation was wrong.

Any chord with a little pressure would result in the chord being out of tune.

The D and G strings being a little too high on the first fret caused this.

Careful work with a needle file and she is now playing beautifully with new frets and new nut. cheers

How do I upload pictures?

Cheers Very Happy

Mark


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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by corsair on Fri May 11, 2012 5:23 pm

Easiest way is to upload your pix to a photo server on the web - Photobucket, Imageshack et al - and when they're done uploading, you copy the .img tags you're given, which you paste into your posts here.

Looking forward to seeing what you've got!

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Guest on Fri May 11, 2012 6:05 pm

corsair wrote:Easiest way is to upload your pix to a photo server on the web - Photobucket, Imageshack et al - and when they're done uploading, you copy the .img tags you're given, which you paste into your posts here.

Looking forward to seeing what you've got!

I've seen lots of how to post pic posts - Maybe we should make a sticky for it. I upload mine right through the forum. Click the "Host an Image" Icon and upload, then copy the URL and then post it using the "Link" icon.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Barry on Fri May 11, 2012 7:49 pm

sarcaster wrote:...I upload mine right through the forum. Click the "Host an Image"...
Same deal. You are linking to an outside hosting site. The pix are not saved here.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by corsair on Fri May 11, 2012 9:59 pm

I haven't used a boards' onboard uploader for years... besides this isn't the only place I frequent so makes sense for me to have the pix somewhere centrally located...

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Tue May 15, 2012 4:17 pm

Here is the completed fret and nut job.
http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/17/51/64/49/img_1211.jpg



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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by marktigere1 on Tue May 15, 2012 4:20 pm

Close up of the nut.
http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/17/51/64/49/img_1214.jpg

Found it difficult to photograph the frets, but they are all brand new.

Very pleased with the results so thanks again for a great thread cheers

Cheers

Mark

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by KC on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:34 pm

Hello,
Thank you for so much information! Inspiring to get ahead (scrapocasters first)
I saw a Villain Graphite for sale, wich I will test next week.. Laughing
so I wonder if there are some experiences with refretting this modulus patented neck.

As I understood, these is no trussrod.
The local dealers seem not to be very enthousiast in refretting these.
Besides that, is there a risk too wide frets might cause extra tension in the fretboard/neck which distorts the profile / neck setup?
Any information is welcome, thanks in advance

Kees

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:16 pm

Good info on this post. I refretted my 1983 strat tonight with good results in preparation for fretting the spectrum project as well as my strat and tele original builds. Still will say look to other resources as well - the more ya know, the more ya know, ya know? but this is good info.

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Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

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